[Phil]

Say RHO opens 1♦ and you are dealt a non-descript 2♦(443) 16 with ♦Ax or Kx.

In what circumstances would you double? In what circumstances would you overcall 1N?

Feel free to discuss MPs vs IMPs too, as well as vulnerability and position.

[Fluffy]

I just double all of them, sorry for not describing much more. I have seen 1NT overcalls over 1♣ with doubleton with success, but over 1♦ I don't even think about it.

[benlessard]

i would never overcall 1nt with only 2 diamonds(1 stopper) and 3+ cards in the others suits.

with

xxx
xxx
aq
akqxx

i would overcall 1nt. but give me some values in the M and i would double.

[Jlall]

Double always, bidding 1N would be awful.

[cherdanno]

I would double when red at IMPs. All white at MPs I would also double. Same at teams when favorable. White against red at matchpoints? Think I would also double.

[fred]

Overcall 1NT if they are playing Precision, especially if you would welcome a club opening lead (the lead you are going to get most often).

LHO is not going to lead a diamond if he has any reasonable alternative (unless perhaps if you make a post saying you agree and LHO happens to read it).

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[jjbrr]

Hm. I think I would still double almost all the time even against precision. Definitely if I had Ax. If I had Kx and lots of good spots and overall very NT-ish I think at the table I'd bid 1N. But an overwhelming amount of the time I'd double.

[pooltuna]

Phil, on Oct 21 2009, 06:54 PM, said:

Say RHO opens 1♦ and you are dealt a non-descript 2♦(443) 16 with ♦Ax or Kx.

In what circumstances would you double? In what circumstances would you overcall 1N?

Feel free to discuss MPs vs IMPs too, as well as vulnerability and position.

you mean I gotta have a double ♦ stopper if I only have 2 cards in the suit. In response if I have a 1NT overcall hand I overcall 1NT

[Phil]

My opponent held AJ9x Axxx Axx Kx. I actually opened 1♣ on his right.

My pard passed and doubler's pard bid 1♦. He bid 1♠ and played it there opposite Kxx Kx Txxx Txxx (?!).

1♠ played like a dream

[gnasher]

It would have to be something like xxx xxxx AK AKQx for me to overcall 1NT with that shape, even over a Precision 1♦. Double has many benefits over 1NT - lower risk, more chance of reaching the right partscore, ease of handling further competition. I don't see what 1NT offers to compensate for all that.

[P_Marlowe]

1NT.

It gets the shape / strength across in one bid.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Tcyk]

It is a fact that the pair that bids 1NT first usually gets the best result. A search of a few million hands has proven this to be true. Your partner may have a stopper to go with yours. RHO may not lead a ♦ because you bid 1NT. If partner has a suit of his own, he will show it. It can't be wrong to show your NT shape and strength in a single bid. Double could be made with a minimum hand and a worthless doubleton in diamonds.

You have never opened NT with a worthless doubleton?

[andy_h]

Opening and overcalling 1NT are two totally different things. For this thread, double can achieve way more things than overcalling 1NT can. RHO has opened, it's now a partscore battle! If we overcall 1NT and proceed to game, then surely we can do that if we double as well! Conversely, if we don't have game then doubling will get you to the right partscore.

[gnasher]

Tcyk, on Oct 22 2009, 02:09 PM, said:

It is a fact that the pair that bids 1NT first usually gets the best result. A search of a few million hands has proven this to be true.

That doesn't seem very relevant, since the question is not "How often is it right to bid 1NT?", but "Is it right to be 1NT on this particular class of hands?"

If your argument were valid, we could use the same argument for overcalling 1NT on AKJ9xxxx x - KQxx.

[Jlall]

I would never X a precision diamond with 4423 and Ax or Kx. Sometimes with (43)24 and Kx I would if I had exactly 16.

[kfay]

Probably like most people I started to double on these hands when I realized I kept getting crushed in 1NT.

Playing MPs I always hate to bid 1NT opposite a passed partner so I double on these is a total no-brainer and still easy for me even with a hand that's less double-ish.

[cherdanno]

fred, on Oct 21 2009, 08:26 PM, said:

Overcall 1NT if they are playing Precision, especially if you would welcome a club opening lead (the lead you are going to get most often).

LHO is not going to lead a diamond if he has any reasonable alternative (unless perhaps if you make a post saying you agree and LHO happens to read it).

Fred, of course your comment may not be completely serious, but I am still curious about it. From watching you on Vugraph now and then I had already noticed that you like to make such 1NT overcalls, and if I were playing precision, and if I were your LHO (two big "if"s...), I would probably just lead my best suit.
When you play against a top precision pair, are they typically aware of your tendency to make such 1NT overcalls, and similarly lead diamonds as much as clubs on this auction?
I guess more generally I am curious how well top players know each others' styles.

[fred]

cherdanno, on Oct 22 2009, 03:20 PM, said:

fred, on Oct 21 2009, 08:26 PM, said:

Overcall 1NT if they are playing Precision, especially if you would welcome a club opening lead (the lead you are going to get most often).

LHO is not going to lead a diamond if he has any reasonable alternative (unless perhaps if you make a post saying you agree and LHO happens to read it).

Fred, of course your comment may not be completely serious, but I am still curious about it. From watching you on Vugraph now and then I had already noticed that you like to make such 1NT overcalls, and if I were playing precision, and if I were your LHO (two big "if"s...), I would probably just lead my best suit.
When you play against a top precision pair, are they typically aware of your tendency to make such 1NT overcalls, and similarly lead diamonds as much as clubs on this auction?
I guess more generally I am curious how well top players know each others' styles.

You are right that my previous post was not entirely serious.

It is hard for me to answer your question about how much top pairs know about each others' style.

Some things are well known. For example:

- Meckwell's style in a lot of areas is well known
- Versace and (especially) Lauria are well known for making light overcalls
- Woolsey and Stewart are well known for preempting hyper-agressively when they are not vulnerable
- Levin and Weinstein are well known for usually having their bids
- Zia is well known for doing a number of specific tricky things on a semi-regular basis
- It is well known that there are many top players who aggressively upgrade to open 1NT (especially in 3rd seat not vul)

But I would guess that if you asked a bunch of top players some more specific qusetions about various top pairs like:

Does pair X tend to overcall 1NT or make takeout doubles on close hands?

or

Does pair Y believe in making preemptive jump raises on worthless hands?

You wouldn't get that many confident answers.

For me at least, unless a particular pair is well known for a particular habit (or a particularly extreme general style), I would have to have played a lot of boards against the pair in question in order to have much of a chance of confidently answering specific questions like these.

Perhaps it should also be mentioned that I am quite sure I read more things like World Championship books and Bridge World match reports and that I watch more vugraph than the average player in my class.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[gnasher]

Jlall, on Oct 22 2009, 04:04 PM, said:

I would never X a precision diamond with 4423 and Ax or Kx. Sometimes with (43)24 and Kx I would if I had exactly 16.

Is that what you meant to say? And if so, can you explain the rationale?

[jdonn]

gnasher, on Oct 22 2009, 12:25 PM, said:

Jlall, on Oct 22 2009, 04:04 PM, said:

I would never X a precision diamond with 4423 and Ax or Kx. Sometimes with (43)24 and Kx I would if I had exactly 16.

Is that what you meant to say? And if so, can you explain the rationale?

I bet it's that if he doubles on say 4324 and that exact strength he has an uncomfortable decision if partner responds in his three card suit, where maybe he would feel he has to pass but a game could be missed.