[TylerE]

Scoring: XIMP

p (p) 1♠ (2♦)
p (3♦) ?

---

[Jlall]

PLEASE DO NOT DOUBLE IT IS VERY BAD!

[woefuwabit]

Jlall, on Oct 9 2009, 10:12 AM, said:

PLEASE DO NOT DOUBLE IT IS VERY BAD!

^

[pooltuna]

Jlall, on Oct 8 2009, 09:12 PM, said:

PLEASE DO NOT DOUBLE IT IS VERY BAD!

so after P P X P are you ready to pass?

[andy_h]

pooltuna, on Oct 9 2009, 01:35 PM, said:

Jlall, on Oct 8 2009, 09:12 PM, said:

PLEASE DO NOT DOUBLE IT IS VERY BAD!

so after P P X P are you ready to pass?

Of course you are. Those two scenarios are completely different. If partner had some boring 2452 (with ♦xxxxx) he would've made a negative double over 2♦. After partner passed and a 3♦ raise by our RHO, I don't understand why I am still wanting to be back into the auction with this current hand when partner didn't make a noise. But if 3♦ comes back around to partner who then doubles (meaning he was probably ready to penalise two diamonds), I'm not particularly ashamed of my opening so I am going to sit it.

[jdonn]

Jlall, on Oct 8 2009, 09:12 PM, said:

PLEASE DO NOT DOUBLE IT IS VERY BAD!

Don't worry, I pass!

[MFA]

If partner knew our hand, then I think double would be a winner. But he doesn't, and he is likely to hang us, typically by passing or bidding 3NT too often.
Have to pass here.

[rhm]

pooltuna, on Oct 8 2009, 09:35 PM, said:

Jlall, on Oct 8 2009, 09:12 PM, said:

PLEASE DO NOT DOUBLE IT IS VERY BAD!

so after P P X P are you ready to pass?

No, I would still take it out into 4♣.
3♦ doubled is much more likely to make than going down 2 or more.
The odds you are laying against yourself are crazy, if you pass.
Yet many make this mistake over and over again.

This hand is terrible for defending (no quick tricks).

Rainer Herrmann

[maggieb]

rhm, on Oct 9 2009, 06:02 AM, said:

No, I would still take it out 

LOL

rhm, on Oct 9 2009, 0g:02 am, said:

into 4♣.

LOL

[Jlall]

pooltuna, on Oct 8 2009, 09:35 PM, said:

Jlall, on Oct 8 2009, 09:12 PM, said:

PLEASE DO NOT DOUBLE IT IS VERY BAD!

so after P P X P are you ready to pass?

Yes because partner wanted to double TWO diamonds and is stil doubling them into game after hearing a raise! He expects me to have a bad hand with a diamond void!

[pooltuna]

Jlall, on Oct 9 2009, 09:25 AM, said:

pooltuna, on Oct 8 2009, 09:35 PM, said:

Jlall, on Oct 8 2009, 09:12 PM, said:

PLEASE DO NOT DOUBLE IT IS VERY BAD!

so after P P X P are you ready to pass?

Yes because partner wanted to double TWO diamonds and is stil doubling them into game after hearing a raise! He expects me to have a bad hand with a diamond void!

good choice

[rhm]

Jlall, on Oct 9 2009, 09:25 AM, said:

pooltuna, on Oct 8 2009, 09:35 PM, said:

Jlall, on Oct 8 2009, 09:12 PM, said:

PLEASE DO NOT DOUBLE IT IS VERY BAD!

so after P P X P are you ready to pass?

Yes because partner wanted to double TWO diamonds and is stil doubling them into game after hearing a raise! He expects me to have a bad hand with a diamond void!

How do you know in deed and how many do you expect 3 ♦ to go down?
The fact that partner passed 2♦ does not guarantee he wanted to pass a reopening DBL from you.
In fact if you would give this sequence to people without this prior discussion and the diamond void in your hand, I doubt that most would interpret this as a penalty double in the first place after the raise.

And even if it would be a clearcut penalty double. which an auction where opponents have raised each other rarely is at the part-score level:
Partner may infer that you are short, but he may still not expect you to be void (which is a big difference) and he will certainly not expect that you have no aces and his shortage in spades may not even help him to get ruffs or spade tricks for the defense.
All indications are that 3♦ will be very close to making, particularly after the DBL reveals the trump break to a competent declarer.

Rainer Herrmann

[neilkaz]

We have junk and PD is not barred from acting if 3♦ is passed around to him.

I pass here.

[MFA]

If partner spanks it, I sit. Of course I do. I expect 3♦ to go down, but probably not a lot.

Partner is a good player and knows all the dozens of good reasons why his double could go wrong in this sequence. And still he doubles. My hand is defensively in range. It's backwards if I have to make some very obscure and perhaps suicidal rescue action with a normal minimum. It can't be the way this sequence should be played.

[cherdanno]

rhm, on Oct 9 2009, 02:20 PM, said:

Jlall, on Oct 9 2009, 09:25 AM, said:

pooltuna, on Oct 8 2009, 09:35 PM, said:

Jlall, on Oct 8 2009, 09:12 PM, said:

PLEASE DO NOT DOUBLE IT IS VERY BAD!

so after P P X P are you ready to pass?

Yes because partner wanted to double TWO diamonds and is stil doubling them into game after hearing a raise! He expects me to have a bad hand with a diamond void!

How do you know in deed and how many do you expect 3 ♦ to go down?
The fact that partner passed 2♦ does not guarantee he wanted to pass a reopening DBL from you.
In fact if you would give this sequence to people without this prior discussion and the diamond void in your hand, I doubt that most would interpret this as a penalty double in the first place after the raise.

And even if it would be a clearcut penalty double. which an auction where opponents have raised each other rarely is at the part-score level:
Partner may infer that you are short, but he may still not expect you to be void (which is a big difference) and he will certainly not expect that you have no aces and his shortage in spades may not even help him to get ruffs or spade tricks for the defense.
All indications are that 3♦ will be very close to making, particularly after the DBL reveals the trump break to a competent declarer.

This is really wrong. First of all, this is a 100% clear-cut penalty double. It shows partner wanted to make a penalty pass at the two-level, despite having values. He has 5 diamonds, and not Qxxxx. Even if you think 3♦ might be making, how on earth can you expect 4♣ to do well? It is most likely a 4-3 fit (I think partner's most likely shape is 2353), it could be a 4-2 fit. Yes we have a void, but it would be the long hand ruffing, and opposite wastage in partner's hand (he has good diamonds). If 3♦ is making, then 4♣X is probably 3 or 4 down. More likely, both contracts are 1 to 3 down.

[skjaeran]

Obvious pass over 3♦.
Also an obvious pass if partner whacks it. I'm not overruling partner with this hand if he wanted to double 2♦ and still wants to penalize opps after the raise. I've got about what partner should expect.

[FrancesHinden]

I'm not as sanguine as some others about defending 3Dx if I pass and partner doubles it, I think it will make sometimes because I do have less defence than he is hoping for.

I'm still passing now, and passing a double by partner, and still think anything else is crazy.

[dellache]

PASS, no second choice : you have no game (pard second pass), no suit playable at the 3rd-level, and no certainty to beat 3♦. DBL is asking for trouble. If pard doubles
3♦, I will sit it, but would not be very happy about it (the only +point is that I opened in 3rd POS, and my hand could be even worse).

[nige1]

TylerE, on Oct 8 2009, 09:10 PM, said:

Dealer: North Vul: None Scoring: XIMP

♠ K8764 ♥ K953 ♦   ♣ KQ84

p (p) 1♠ (2♦) p (3♦) ?

My initial reaction was _X = 10, _P = 9.
Although, on reflection, JLall could well be right.

[kfay]

Funny. I held a hand almost exactly like this at the club last night. Double would have been a mistake then and it was at the 2-level..... (I passed)