[gwnn]

JTxxx
Qxxx
xx
xx

p-p-1♦-p
?

fav. imps

[pooltuna]

gwnn, on Sep 30 2009, 12:34 PM, said:

JTxxx
Qxxx
xx
xx

p-p-1♦-p
?

fav. imps

It will probably be easier to make 1♦ than 2NT

[aguahombre]

If the tuna is saying pass, and not just clowning, I second the motion.

[jdonn]

1♠ all day, though passing is not as bad since partner is third seat (both opponents have passed so they are unlikely to have game.) I would say passing is awful if partner had been first seat.

[pooltuna]

jdonn, on Sep 30 2009, 01:18 PM, said:

1♠ all day, though passing is not as bad since partner is third seat (both opponents have passed so they are unlikely to have game.) I would say passing is awful if partner had been first seat.

do you have a simulation to back up the "awfulness" of <gasp> passing 1♦

[mike777]

pass...

btw if pard had opened 1c I would try 1s.

[Phil]

Pass. Give me a stiff diamond and I would bid.

Agree with Josh that this is a mandatory 1♠ if pard was dealer.

[jdonn]

pooltuna, on Sep 30 2009, 02:22 PM, said:

jdonn, on Sep 30 2009, 01:18 PM, said:

1♠ all day, though passing is not as bad since partner is third seat (both opponents have passed so they are unlikely to have game.) I would say passing is awful if partner had been first seat.

do you have a simulation to back up the "awfulness" of <gasp> passing 1♦

Oh my god, I made a claim without a simulation to back it up!! No posting for me for a month. How did people ever reach conclusions before the 1990s, I'll never know.

[nige1]

gwnn, on Sep 30 2009, 12:34 PM, said:

fav. imps JTxxx Qxxx xx xx
p-p-1♦-p
?

IMO _P = 10, 1♠ = 9
An argument for 1♠ is that we have both majors and some shape. We walruses believe that 1♠ is flawed because we have few points, we don't really want a spade lead, and we may get another shot if opponents protect.

[655321]

1♠ for me.

As a general rule I think it is always much better to respond on these hands. On this particular hand, Pass might be OK because:-

Opponents have both passed, so are not as likely to make 3NT.
We have Qxxx hearts, so they are less likely to make 4♥.
We are fairly balanced, so are less likely to make 4♠ opposite a big fit.

But even with these considerations, I prefer 1♠.

[pooltuna]

nige1, on Sep 30 2009, 05:41 PM, said:

gwnn, on Sep 30 2009, 12:34 PM, said:

fav. imps JTxxx Qxxx xx xx
p-p-1♦-p
?

IMO _P = 10, 1♠ = 9
An argument for 1♠ is that we have both majors and some shape. We walruses believe that 1♠ is flawed because we have few points, we don't really want a spade lead, and we may get another shot if opponents protect.

yeah that is about what I figure but Josh sounded like it was 1♠=10 and pass= neg infiinity

[jdonn]

pooltuna, on Sep 30 2009, 07:01 PM, said:

nige1, on Sep 30 2009, 05:41 PM, said:

gwnn, on Sep 30 2009, 12:34 PM, said:

fav. imps JTxxx Qxxx xx xx
p-p-1♦-p
?

IMO _P = 10, 1♠ = 9
An argument for 1♠ is that we have both majors and some shape. We walruses believe that 1♠ is flawed because we have few points, we don't really want a spade lead, and we may get another shot if opponents protect.

yeah that is about what I figure but Josh sounded like it was 1♠=10 and pass= neg infiinity

uhhhhhhhh did you read the post?

jdonn, on Sep 30 2009, 01:18 PM, said:

passing is not as bad since partner is third seat

[gwnn]

ATT it was 1D-1S; 2NT-p for 50. I don't know if 1D would have made there was an ugly trump break.

If partner rebids 2H do you pass?

[hanp]

I have found that it is not a good idea to bid on such hands when partner has opened in third seat and both opponents have passed. It greatly increases the risk that partner rebids 2NT and decreases the chance that we succesfully steal from the opponents.

I also think that bidding is a clear winner after partner opens in first seat. I happen to play that 1D denies a strong balanced hand which makes bidding even more attractive.

[pooltuna]

jdonn, on Sep 30 2009, 07:34 PM, said:

pooltuna, on Sep 30 2009, 07:01 PM, said:

nige1, on Sep 30 2009, 05:41 PM, said:

gwnn, on Sep 30 2009, 12:34 PM, said:

fav. imps JTxxx Qxxx xx xx
p-p-1♦-p
?

IMO _P = 10, 1♠ = 9
An argument for 1♠ is that we have both majors and some shape. We walruses believe that 1♠ is flawed because we have few points, we don't really want a spade lead, and we may get another shot if opponents protect.

yeah that is about what I figure but Josh sounded like it was 1♠=10 and pass= neg infiinity

uhhhhhhhh did you read the post?

jdonn, on Sep 30 2009, 01:18 PM, said:

passing is not as bad since partner is third seat

yeah I did especially the part that said

Quote

I would say passing is awful if partner had been first seat.

Frankly I don't care what seat partner is in, I am passing the first round not because I wouldn't like to bid 1♠ but to avoid partner's rebid complications

[the hog]

nige1, on Oct 1 2009, 05:41 AM, said:

gwnn, on Sep 30 2009, 12:34 PM, said:

fav. imps JTxxx Qxxx xx xx
p-p-1♦-p
?

IMO _P = 10, 1♠ = 9
An argument for 1♠ is that we have both majors and some shape. We walruses believe that 1♠ is flawed because we have few points, we don't really want a spade lead, and we may get another shot if opponents protect.

imo Pass = 10, 1S = 0

[andy_h]

I'm with the 1♠ camp and do realise partner's in 3rd seat. If partner bids 2♥ I have just enough to bid 2NT (weak hand) to sign off in 3♥.

[jdonn]

The_Hog, on Oct 1 2009, 08:03 AM, said:

nige1, on Oct 1 2009, 05:41 AM, said:

gwnn, on Sep 30 2009, 12:34 PM, said:

fav. imps JTxxx Qxxx xx xx
p-p-1♦-p
?

IMO _P = 10, 1♠ = 9
An argument for 1♠ is that we have both majors and some shape. We walruses believe that 1♠ is flawed because we have few points, we don't really want a spade lead, and we may get another shot if opponents protect.

imo Pass = 10, 1S = 0

Well there's a shocker, the hog thinks no choice but his first choice has any merit at all.

Btw regarding partner rebidding 2NT, if partner rebids 2♠/3♠/splinter/4♠/1NT/2♥ I'm happy. If he rebids 2♣/2♦ I'm perfectly fine and sometimes we have stolen from the opponents. 2NT is only one rebid. Even then I play transfers and I can transfer to hearts, signing off in whichever major partner prefers opposite 5-4. No guarantees that we will be in a good contract but the same can be said of 1♦.

Anyway, the possibility partner might rebid 2NT or something where we go minus like 3♦ is a perfectly meritorious argument against bidding. However, the fact that partner will make a bad lead really isn't one, it's just a 1 level response which doesn't promise anything in the suit and it decreases the chance partner will be on lead anyway. Nor is saying something like "we can always come in later if they balance." I for one don't know how to show a 5-4 in the majors hand after 1♦ p p 1NT p p ? nor do I know a safe way to introduce spades at all in that spot. And the point of bidding is to make it harder for the opponents to enter. Why let it go 1♦ p p 2♣ p 3♣ when I could have responded 1♠ and maybe bought the hand in 2 of a major?

Everyone did notice the vul was favorable btw, right? I would say at this vul if you never pass a minor suit opening with a 5 card major, you may not be perfect but you will be a lot better than much of the judgment I have seen displayed.

[jdonn]

andy_h, on Oct 1 2009, 09:26 AM, said:

I'm with the 1♠ camp and do realise partner's in 3rd seat. If partner bids 2♥ I have just enough to bid 2NT (weak hand) to sign off in 3♥.

Strongly agree with that action if partner reverses. We could too easily have a game if partner is 4-6 or 5-6. It wouldn't even take much strength, for example x AKJx AKxxxx xx is not a cold 4♥ but I'm quite happy to be in it. - Axxxx AKxxxx xx is not even a reverse (nor can partner have a hand that weak in any case, I know) and 4♥ is good. Also it's normal for partner to reverse on 3361 hands with extra strength and I would hate to play a 4-3 2♥ contract with a cold 4♠.

[nige1]

gwnn, on Oct 1 2009, 03:53 AM, said:

ATT it was 1D-1S; 2NT-p for 50. I don't know if 1D would have made there was an. If partner rebids 2H do you pass?

When partner bids ♥, your doubletons increase in value. Game is good opposite suitable minimum reverses. eg partner may have ♠. ♥AKJx ♦AKxxxx ♣xxx. If you have a Blackout convention available, you can try that. Otherwise IMO 3♥ = 10, _P = 5.