[dan_ehh]

Scoring: IMP

---

Only we are bidding:
1♣-1♥-1♠-3♥*-4NT-5♣**-5NT

* 3♥ is forcing to game.
** 5♣ is undiscussed. Assumed 03-14.

What is your next bid?

[pooltuna]

dan_ehh, on Sep 29 2009, 01:06 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP

---

Only we are bidding:
1♣-1♥-1♠-3♥*-4NT-5♣**-5NT

* 3♥ is forcing to game.
** 5♣ is undiscussed. Assumed 03-14.

What is your next bid?

I answer the question with the apparent appropriate answer 6♥

[kenrexford]

Well, let's see.

Partner ostensibly is making a grand try. But, to make a grand try, partner would need ♠A ♥AK ♦A ♣A, for 19 prime. He didn't open 2NT, and he didn't reverse. So, something is terribly wrong.

If partner assumed 3, he is missing at best two Aces and the heart Ace. He must have something like ♠AJxx ♥Axx ♦QJ♣Qxxx, buit then that's not enough to ask for Aces.

So, he must have four himself. To not open 1NT, he must be unbalanced, as his range is almost forced into a 1NT opening or 2NT rebid.

This screams 4315 shape. But, spread out four Aces and this is not that great. ♠Axxx ♥Axx ♦A ♣Axxxx? You just about need the club hook to work to make the small slam. There might be a black-suit squeeze.

This is too weird.

[jdonn]

Impossible. And I don't even know whether I have to bid 6♣ or 6♥ to stop in a small slam since apparently we have no idea what we are playing, not even last round.

[gwnn]

wow partner didn't ask for the queen of hearts?

5NT should mean 'we have all keycards and the queen of hearts', something that partner cannot have, he can't have 5 hearts to make the ♥Q irrelevant. If 5NT is also undiscussed, it is rather difficult to do something intelligent here. How am I supposed to know if I'm supposed to show my cheapest K or the # of kings?

[gwnn]

btw if kenrexford says about a slam sequence that it's weird, it's probably weird.

[kfay]

I probably just put the hand back in the board and give my opps a top.

Partner's 1S here could not possibly be bid on the ♠A, ♥AK, ♦A and the ♣A unless he thinks for some unknown reason that 1♠ is forcing (IT IS NOT!).

Anyway I'd better just bid 6♥, which will rate to go down less than 5NT, and hope partner has 3 aces, even though I know he only has 2 if he thinks that 4NT is keycard.

BTW I don't thik 4NT is keycard either, since he can set up a keycard by bidding 4♦ over 3♥. Clearly playing with someone undiscussed though I guess I'd treat it as keycard, but obviously something's gone really wrong here.

[kenrexford]

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I think 4NT was meant as quantitative. Maybe 4225 or 4135 and just under a jump shift? Not sure what 5NT means, though.

Still baffled.

[jdonn]

Who knows, maybe partner meant 4NT as natural and quantitative and I'm supposed to pass 5NT. It would be a good agreement for 4NT to be natural and 4♦ to be the start of all heart slam tries.

Darn you Ken, I posted this then saw yours.

The more I think about it, 4NT has to be natural. I was fooled by the original post telling me 30-14 was assumed.

[dan_ehh]

Thank you all for the fast responses.

I agree that 4NT should probably be quantitative, however this was not the case. Both players agreed that it is RKCB, they just hadn't discussed whether they play 0314 or 1430, so the 5♣ bidder assumed they play the "more standard" responses.

Does that change anything?

[kenrexford]

dan_ehh, on Sep 29 2009, 02:09 PM, said:

Thank you all for the fast responses.

I agree that 4NT should probably be quantitative, however this was not the case. Both players agreed that it is RKCB, they just hadn't discussed whether they play 0314 or 1430, so the 5♣ bidder assumed they play the "more standard" responses.

Does that change anything?

Yes. You are both insane. No one discusses this specific auction, or one like it, to decide that 4NT must clearly be RKCB or 1430 but then never decides whether 1430 or RKCB is in use.

So, we know that you are both insane. We also know that partner, unless so insane that 4NT might have been intended as Stayman, presumably thinks you have 1 or 4, as 3 is ridiculous and as 0 makes his hand too strong.

So, we want to not bid anything except that which will stop the auction.

Now, if we have no idea how to answer Aces, we cannot possibly know whether we play specific or number as to Kings. As a guess, I'd suspect specific, because he seems to have guessed 1430, and 1430 types probably play specific. RKCB types too, but I'd guess that 1430+number is very rare.

So, I have two legitimate options -- 6♥ with fingers crossed, or pass, as possibly the last making contract that we can actually play.