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basically this nonsense ended up with both players thinking that partner's suit had been settled as trumps, west showing 1 keycard, east trying to ask about ♥Q and playing there.
+640 only losed 13 IMPs. So this aberration cost 26.
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#1
- World International Master without a clue
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Posted 2009-September-25, 17:46
basically this nonsense ended up with both players thinking that partner's suit had been settled as trumps, west showing 1 keycard, east trying to ask about ♥Q and playing there.
+640 only losed 13 IMPs. So this aberration cost 26.
#2
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Posted 2009-September-25, 18:14
Hey West, what do you call a solid 7-card major?
edit - If West does take the 2H/3H approach then I would bid 4C instead of 3S with the East hand to avoid an accident.
edit - If West does take the 2H/3H approach then I would bid 4C instead of 3S with the East hand to avoid an accident.
#3
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Posted 2009-September-25, 20:05
Fluffy, on Sep 25 2009, 06:46 PM, said:
Scoring: IMP
1♥-(1♠)-2♦
2♥-2♠
3♥-3♠
4♦-4NT
5♣-5♦
p
1♥-(1♠)-2♦
2♥-2♠
3♥-3♠
4♦-4NT
5♣-5♦
p
basically this nonsense ended up with both players thinking that partner's suit had been settled as trumps, west showing 1 keycard, east trying to ask about ♥Q and playing there.
+640 only losed 13 IMPs. So this aberration cost 26.
hate 4d, hate 3s....
another silly cuebidding disaster yet again...
#4
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Posted 2009-September-25, 23:49
I think West should bid 3♥ at his second call. It is a rare hand when diamonds is going to play better than hearts. Plus it sets a GF right away. Then again, I would play 2♥ as NF, so I am guessing the pair in question play a different system than I am used to.
#5
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Posted 2009-September-26, 00:10
AGain I guess I am missing something this seems like a really easy hand....
over 3h I bid rkc.....
2h is fine....3h is fine...
hate 3s hate 4d.
over 3h I bid rkc.....
2h is fine....3h is fine...
hate 3s hate 4d.
#6
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Posted 2009-September-26, 02:22
Fluffy, on Sep 26 2009, 01:46 AM, said:
Scoring: IMP
1♥-(1♠)-2♦
2♥-2♠
3♥-3♠
4♦-4NT
5♣-5♦
p
1♥-(1♠)-2♦
2♥-2♠
3♥-3♠
4♦-4NT
5♣-5♦
p
basically this nonsense ended up with both players thinking that partner's suit had been settled as trumps, west showing 1 keycard, east trying to ask about ♥Q and playing there.
+640 only losed 13 IMPs. So this aberration cost 26.
It is a difficult question: what is trumps when you bid 4NT after this bidding.
- ♥ because you'll almost always play in that 7+card major. And you already made a GF with 2♠, So 3♠ should now set ♥ as trump. 4♦ didn't agree ♦'s then, it was a cue for ♥ (♦ cue possible with ♦Q in partners suit)
- ♦, because that suit was agreed as trump. 3♠ was only looking for ♠ stop to play 3NT.
We need someone who has writtin a book about control bids to answer this question.
1♥-(1♠)-2♦
4♥-4NT
5♠-6♦ (6♦ asking 3rd round control ♦)
7♥
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#7
- Andy Bowles
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Posted 2009-September-26, 03:21
As kgr says, the key question is what 3♠ shows. Unless a major is clearly agreed, a bid in the opponents' suit at the three-level is normally a try for notrumps. I wouldn't want to make an exception for this sequence, so I don't think 3♠ agrees hearts. In that case, 4♦ is natural, and 4NT is RKCB for diamonds.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
#8
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Posted 2009-September-26, 05:27
Think I would have bid 3♦ over 2♠ (2♠ is GF) planning to bid 4♥ later on as a suggestion to play. Had I had this sequence 3♠ is either looking for 3NT or an advanced cue in which case that would be for hearts. So 4♦ is a cue (partner's main suit) and says nothing about suggesting diamonds as trumps since I might have been able to bid 3♦ over 2♠ beforehand.
- Andy -
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#9
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Posted 2009-September-26, 07:04
1♥-(1♠)-2♦
3♥-4♣ cuebid
4♦ cuebid - 4NT
5♠ - 7♥
looks reasonable.
I think that West should rebid 3♥ given pard's 2♦ bid makes the hand much better than minimum. AK diamonds, A spades is all that is needed to make 6♥ odds on.
I prefer cuebidding 4♦ with the west hand, showing a top honor in pard's suit (never shortage), allowing east to count 13 tricks after keycarding for hearts.
The 3♠ bid by east was ambiguous - as the resultant auction clearly showed, west didn't think it agreed hearts. 4♣ would be much easier to read as a cuebid for hearts.
3♥-4♣ cuebid
4♦ cuebid - 4NT
5♠ - 7♥
looks reasonable.
I think that West should rebid 3♥ given pard's 2♦ bid makes the hand much better than minimum. AK diamonds, A spades is all that is needed to make 6♥ odds on.
I prefer cuebidding 4♦ with the west hand, showing a top honor in pard's suit (never shortage), allowing east to count 13 tricks after keycarding for hearts.
The 3♠ bid by east was ambiguous - as the resultant auction clearly showed, west didn't think it agreed hearts. 4♣ would be much easier to read as a cuebid for hearts.
Ming
--Always remember you're unique. Just like everyone else.
--Always remember you're unique. Just like everyone else.
#10
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Posted 2009-September-26, 07:40
I think this hand is a 4♥ opening preempt with no outside controls.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
That aside, I like kqr's auction.... with the 4H rebid. I was thinking about the 3rd Rnd Ctrl ask also, but partner will put you in 7♥ with the following hand ( exchange the pointy suits) and you will need a 3-3- Diam split to make.... not to mention the issue of opener thinking 6D is to play @#!
So all in all, I think 6♥ is reasonable stop:
♠ Q x x
♥ A K Q x x x x
♦ x x
♣ x
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Standard replies to 6♦! 3rd Rnd Ctrl ask:
6H = no 3rd Rnd Ctrl
6NT = ♦Q ( NT alsways shows the asked-for feature )
7♦ = ♦Q J
7♥ = doubleton x x
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
That aside, I like kqr's auction.... with the 4H rebid. I was thinking about the 3rd Rnd Ctrl ask also, but partner will put you in 7♥ with the following hand ( exchange the pointy suits) and you will need a 3-3- Diam split to make.... not to mention the issue of opener thinking 6D is to play @#!
So all in all, I think 6♥ is reasonable stop:
♠ Q x x
♥ A K Q x x x x
♦ x x
♣ x
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Standard replies to 6♦! 3rd Rnd Ctrl ask:
6H = no 3rd Rnd Ctrl
6NT = ♦Q ( NT alsways shows the asked-for feature )
7♦ = ♦Q J
7♥ = doubleton x x
Don Stenmark ( TWOferBRIDGE )
#11
- Csaba the Hutt
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Posted 2009-September-26, 07:50
it's still better than the more common situation when both players think it's their that's trump.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
George Carlin
George Carlin
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Posted 2009-September-26, 08:56
Fluffy, on Sep 25 2009, 06:46 PM, said:
Scoring: IMP
1♥-(1♠)-2♦
2♥-2♠
3♥-3♠
4♦-4NT
5♣-5♦
p
1♥-(1♠)-2♦
2♥-2♠
3♥-3♠
4♦-4NT
5♣-5♦
p
basically this nonsense ended up with both players thinking that partner's suit had been settled as trumps, west showing 1 keycard, east trying to ask about ♥Q and playing there.
+640 only losed 13 IMPs. So this aberration cost 26.
I blame the 3 level bids. Either West should bid 4♥ over 2♠ or bid 3♦. The latter implies IMO 6♥ since he could have supported ♦ rather than bid 2♥ and gives partner a chance to show 2 card ♥ support. The 3♠ bid IMO is very ambiguous but then maybe he is used to his partner trying to mastermind the auction.
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the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"
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the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
George Bernard Shaw
#13
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Posted 2009-September-26, 09:15
oneferbrid is the only one who thinks the hand should have been opened 4H?
4H(7-7/12 tricks) 4NT
5S 6D
7H(any 3rd round countrol of diamonds)
4H(7-7/12 tricks) 4NT
5S 6D
7H(any 3rd round countrol of diamonds)
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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1♥-(1♠)-2♦
2♥-2♠
3♥-3♠
4♦-4NT
5♣-5♦
p