[zheddh]

1♠ - (p) - 2♣ - (2♥)
?


What are the meaning of the various bids here?


Thanks in advance

[Jlall]

double is penalty, other bids are natural, 3H shows short hearts and 4+ clubs.

[pooltuna]

Jlall, on Sep 23 2009, 04:31 PM, said:

double is penalty, other bids are natural, 3H shows short hearts and 4+ clubs.

seems entirely reasonable and easy to remember

[jdonn]

And to clarify, 2♠ shows at least 6 now even if it would have only promised 5 without interference, since you are free to pass with just 5.

Also I would recommend to treat 3♦ as a 'high level reverse' or whatever you call it, meaning give it the same strength and suit quality requirements as the clubs in an auction like this one.
1♠ - 2♦ -
3♣

[ONEferBRID]

Jlall, on Sep 23 2009, 04:31 PM, said:

double is penalty, other bids are natural, 3H shows short hearts and 4+ clubs.

We all know that cuebid by Responder shows support for Opener's suit ( limit raise or better ).

But I don't think it works the other-way-around for Opener's cuebid.
3H! is a general force, to be clarified later. It is asking for more info with the first priority as asking for a Ht-stop.

[Jlall]

ONEferBRID, on Sep 23 2009, 06:42 PM, said:

Jlall, on Sep 23 2009, 04:31 PM, said:

double is penalty, other bids are natural, 3H shows short hearts and 4+ clubs.

We all know that cuebid by Responder shows support for Opener's suit ( limit raise or better ).

But I don't think it works the other-way-around for Opener's cuebid.
3H! is a general force, to be clarified later. It is asking for more info with the first priority as asking for a Ht-stop.

no not really

[cherdanno]

ONEferBRID, on Sep 23 2009, 06:42 PM, said:

Jlall, on Sep 23 2009, 04:31 PM, said:

double is penalty, other bids are natural, 3H shows short hearts and 4+ clubs.

We all know that cuebid by Responder shows support for Opener's suit ( limit raise or better ).

But I don't think it works the other-way-around for Opener's cuebid.
3H! is a general force, to be clarified later. It is asking for more info with the first priority as asking for a Ht-stop.

You are ignoring that the auction is game forcing and pass is forcing. If opener is balanced, he should always pass (and responder will bid 2N with a stopper unless he has s.th. more important to say). If opener has support but no shortness, he bids 3♣. If he has a long spades, he rebids spades. You never need to bid 3♥ unless you have a distributional hand, and it is clearly more useful to make 3♥ a well-defined bid with a distributional hand in case advancer makes a preemptive heart raise.

[ONEferBRID]

Is 2C 2/1 GF or 1 Rnd force ?
... or does it matter ?

[Trinidad]

ONEferBRID, on Sep 24 2009, 03:18 AM, said:

Is 2C 2/1 GF or 1 Rnd force ?
... or does it matter ?

It does matter (in general) whether the 2/1 was GF.

In 2/1 GF, anything below game, including pass, is forcing, with the exception of a penalty double.
But pairs that play a 2/1 as a one round force, usually have the agreement that after a 2/1, the auction is forcing through a certain level. Examples of common agreements are: forcing through 2NT, forcing until suit agreement or game forcing unless responder rebids his suit.

I don't know anyone who plays American style 2/1 's (GF (2/1 GF) or INV+ (SAYC)) and has the agreement that a pass below 2 of opener's suit (as in this case) is non forcing. As long as you play something that looks like SAYC or 2/1 (and this is the SAYC and 2/1 forum), this pass is forcing. So, in this case, it doesn't matter whether the 2/1 was GF or just a one round force.

Rik

[ONEferBRID]

Jlall, on Sep 23 2009, 06:52 PM, said:

ONEferBRID, on Sep 23 2009, 06:42 PM, said:

Jlall, on Sep 23 2009, 04:31 PM, said:

double is penalty, other bids are natural, 3H shows short hearts and 4+ clubs.

We all know that cuebid by Responder shows support for Opener's suit ( limit raise or better ).

But I don't think it works the other-way-around for Opener's cuebid.
3H! is a general force, to be clarified later. It is asking for more info with the first priority as asking for a Ht-stop.

no not really

I yield.
Although some "outside" non-experts like myself held the opinion that 3H! was a stop-ask, the expert opinion was that 3H! was better served as a splinter for Responder's Cl.

[reisig]

Sorry to disagree -
I use X as NOT penalty - some good hand (not w 4C)
With a penalty ...I Pass and await partner to re-open w X (w a "normal" hand).

[helene_t]

I prefer to play dbl as either showing a balanced hand or as t/o. But penalty is probably "standard".

[ONEferBRID]

Jlall, on Sep 23 2009, 04:31 PM, said:

3H! shows short hearts and 4+ clubs.

Another expert agreed that Opener's 3H! was a splinter and not a stop-ask, BUT said it could be a splinter for either:
    a)  partner's Cl ... or
    b ) a self-splinter for his Sp.

[DWM]

I like X as pen, teach them for messing about with our hand.

Pass is 100% forcing with nothing more to say at the moment

As finding out if we have a NT game is very high in the list of things to do I think 3♥ should be asking for a half stop as if I am balanced without any control in hearts I would pass and let P make the next move.

3♣/♦ should show 5/4 hands, again with 3 card ♣ support I think its more important to search for the 3NT first.

2♠ shows 6+ spades.

Not too sure what 3♠ should show guess some sort of long near solid spade suit with outside Aces

4♣ RCKB in clubs

2NT is natural, but not too sure what 3NT should show. Playing safe I think its just to play but then you are already forcing to game so 2NT says I want to play in NT's so without any special agreement 2NT must show some extras.

[ONEferBRID]

ONEferBRID, on Sep 26 2009, 09:44 AM, said:

Jlall, on Sep 23 2009, 04:31 PM, said:

3H! shows short hearts and 4+ clubs.

Another expert agreed that Opener's 3H! was a splinter and not a stop-ask, BUT said it could be a splinter for either:
    a)  partner's Cl ... or
    b ) a self-splinter for his Sp.

Another, a national champion, said:

3H! doesn't ask for a stopper-- a (forcing) Pass does that....
...and:
c) 3H! does not ( necessarily ) show shortness.
He said he would bid 3H! on:

A K x x x x
A x
x x
K J x

[jdonn]

ONEferBRID, on Sep 27 2009, 07:48 AM, said:

ONEferBRID, on Sep 26 2009, 09:44 AM, said:

Jlall, on Sep 23 2009, 04:31 PM, said:

3H! shows short hearts and 4+ clubs.

Another expert agreed that Opener's 3H! was a splinter and not a stop-ask, BUT said it could be a splinter for either:
    a)  partner's Cl ... or
    b ) a self-splinter for his Sp.

Another, a national champion, said:

3H! doesn't ask for a stopper-- a (forcing) Pass does that....
...and:
c) 3H! does not ( necessarily ) show shortness.
He said he would bid 3H! on:

A K x x x x
A x
x x
K J x

And how is that better than 2♠?