[eleanorsf]

New release of web client

1. Long alerts run off the left side of the screen.

2. Alerts stay visible too long, making it impossible to see the next lower line of the auction.

3. BBO Now shows up in a small window and is useless at this point. It's a great feature and I hope it gets fixed soon.

4. The box area at the bottom right of the table screen that shows the contract and the tricks taken is sometimes too short, and two cards are on the left of the box. I've seen no obvious pattern as to when this occurs

Related to TPT

5. Tournament chat button is needed as it's the only way to communicate with the TD once you are playing at a table. There are no standard director calls in TPT because of the nature of the tournaments. Already reported to Uday.

6. The total points showing in the box at the lower left of the table screen are often wrong. I've seen no discernible pattern.

Thanks, Eleanor

[fred]

Thanks for your comments, Eleanor.

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1.  Long alerts run off the left side of the screen.

Sorry. This will be fixed in the next version.

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2. Alerts stay visible too long, making it impossible to see the next lower line of the auction.

It is hard for the software to "know" how long to leave this information on the screen, so for now at least you will have to get rid of it yourself. You can do this by moving your mouse onto the alerted bid in question and then moving it away.

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3.  BBO Now shows up in a small window and is useless at this point. It's a great feature and I hope it gets fixed soon.

You can resize this window yourself by clicking and dragging one of its corners. Make sure you explicitly log off BBO when your session is finished (by clicking "Log off" as opposed to just closing your browser window). This will cause the software to "remember" settings like this so you don't have to change them again.

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4. The box area at the bottom right of the table screen that shows the contract and the tricks taken is sometimes too short, and two cards are on the left of the box. I've seen no obvious pattern as to when this occurs

I think I know what you mean, but I have never seen this happen myself. If convenient I would really appreciate it if you could e-mail a screenshot to fred@bridgebase.com next time you see this happen. This should be easy to fix once I can see a picture.

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5. Tournament chat button is needed as it's the only way to communicate with the TD once you are playing at a table. There are no standard director calls in TPT because of the nature of the tournaments. Already reported to Uday.

This will be addressed via chat->club in the next version, but in the mean time you can always:

1) Type the TD's name at the very bottom left of the screen.

2) Make the TD a friend and then click the square with the TD's name that will appear in "Who's online", "Friends".

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6. The total points showing in the box at the lower left of the table screen are often wrong. I've seen no discernible pattern.

Here also a screenshot would be helpful, especially if you can activate the "My results" area at the right of the screen before creating the screenshot.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[eleanorsf]

Thanks for the quick response, Fred.

I've figured out (finally!!) how to take a screen shot so I will forward them to you when i run into the short contract box or the total points discrepancies.

Was a change made to take the active auction box out of the center of the screen and back to the top right corner? I really liked it in the middle of the table. if this is an option I'll go change my settings. And since the auction is back in the upper right corner, the short contract box has not occurred.

I really appreciate the web-client as it's the only way i can access BBO, being on a non-dual processing Mac.

Also I'd like to vote for the card design in the client server. It's elegant! I would love to have that deck available in real cards. And you designer had a little fun with the Queen of Clubs. Greatly enjoy it.

[fred]

eleanorsf, on Oct 19 2009, 11:34 PM, said:

Thanks for the quick response, Fred.

I've figured out (finally!!) how to take a screen shot so I will forward them to you when i run into the short contract box or the total points discrepancies.

Was a change made to take the active auction box out of the center of the screen and back to the top right corner? I really liked it in the middle of the table. if this is an option I'll go change my settings. And since the auction is back in the upper right corner, the short contract box has not occurred.

I really appreciate the web-client as it's the only way i can access BBO, being on a non-dual processing Mac.

Also I'd like to vote for the card design in the client server. It's elegant! I would love to have that deck available in real cards. And you designer had a little fun with the Queen of Clubs. Greatly enjoy it.

Thanks Eleanor. I am glad you like our web-client.

The auction box will appear at the center of the table only if there is enough space for it. In principle we could always arrange for there to be enough space, but in some configurations that would mean smaller cards (and making the cards as big as possible has been a high priority goal for us).

If you don't need the "My results" area to be showing constantly, you can probably get the auction back to where you like it simply by closing that part of the screen (the blue "Results" button at the right of the row of button under the table can be used to toggle between showing and hiding this area).

Alternatively you may be able to get the auction box to return to the center by experimenting with the 2 "sliders" that control the size of the table. One of these looks like = and appears between the table and the chat area. The other other looks like || and appears to the right of the table. Click and drag these sliders to adjust their positions. Once you find a configuration you like, the software will remember it.

I hope this helps. If you continue to have trouble getting the auction back to where you like it, let me know.

By the way, you should expect the auction box to appear in the middle of the table only when the bidding is still going on. Once the opening lead is made, it will always move to the upper right.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[fred]

babalu1997, on Oct 17 2009, 09:52 PM, said:

fred, on Oct 16 2009, 09:32 AM, said:

babalu1997, on Oct 16 2009, 12:57 AM, said:

Should i login and try to be placed at a table, I literally cannot join the tables because the seats are no longer avaible.

i refresh, i try again, same thing new table, seat no longer availale

i have wide band connection

Other people have complained about this. Not sure what to do about it...

If you don't mind, can you please try the same thing when convenient in the Relaxed Bridge Club and let me know if your experiences are any different?

Thanks,

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

hi Fred, I did try it. Both in MBC and Relaxed with open seating.

The tables were not so quick to fill up at the Relaxed club, so i could find a seat.

It takes me longer to choose a seat at the MBC because i like to peep at the partner`s profile before attempting to sit, and then the seat gets filled.. The mouse over does not seem to be instanteneous as it is in the windows version.

I had better luck where there was only one player at the table, but then who knows who partner will be, so not my preferred mode.

Thanks for doing this experiment Babala.

All I can say for now is that I understand the nature of the problem (and that it is a problem). Hopefully at some point we will think of some clever way to address this issue.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[fred]

A2003, on Oct 13 2009, 10:35 PM, said:

I opened a teaching table. I took all 4 seats. I tried to load convention card full disclosure type or any other kind. I wanted to see the effect how it will be shown.

I am unable to load. Grayed out NS CC and EW CC.

This is working as designed even though I realize it is not ideal.

One of the fundamental aspects of a convention card in the web-client is that only partnerships can "use" a convention card. A partnership is defined as consisting of 2 BBO members so you can't use a convention card when partnering yourself(sorry).

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[fred]

billw55, on Oct 14 2009, 12:08 AM, said:

Personally I really like the web client. I dropped the desktop client like a rock as soon as I realized the web client existed. I guess I am an early adopter.

Two suggestions: an option for four-color cards (I made a separate thread about this before seeing this thread).

Second, sound options ... in some cases I would prefer the "ding dong" alert from the desktop client, but would want to be able to change between them. Also would be nice for the web client to have an alert sound when a player requests to join the table.

I am glad you like the web-client, Bill.

Several other people have requested 4-color cards. The "deck" we use now is generated from a big graphics file that is downloaded as part of the "loading..." process. As such, I am not exactly eager to include a second file like this for the purposes of producing 4-color cards.

But I might be able to do something about this programmatically...

In general we have tried to not get too involved in offering a lot of user options (partly because we got rather carried away in this area with the Windows client). However, sound-related options is one area that we really should address (and it is another area that several people have requested improvements). I doubt you will see anything happen in this area soon, but it is on our list of things to do.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[woefuwabit]

Is there a way to read lobby chat using the web client? Otherwise there doesn't seem to be a way to find and join team matches. What would be great would be a team match matchmaking service.

Also, I've found that the web client likes to repaint itself a lot (which slows down everything), when temporary toolbars appear on the browser (e.g. search toolbar, download status bar, security warning / save password bar). Using firefox 3.5 on 64 bits linux.

[EddyHaskel]

The web client is getting better all the time but still does not feel as teacher/student friendly as the windows client for use at teaching tables. In my (very informal, unscientific, completely subjective) queries of BIL and IAC teachers so far, 90% of them seem to prefer the Windows client even with its infamous teaching table "undo" glitches. More on that later..

My comments on v.29 beta:

Preface: I am one of those 1024 x 768 Luddites with an old 15" VDT monitor. I know, I know... even my wife is starting to make fun of me about that... but still, there are lots of us out here.

- I very much like the new Hand Results viewing options (where it can disappear and reappear with one button). It would be even better if there were a way for the web client to differentiate between the Hand Results and "Who's Online" viewing panels and remember their respective view size settings. That is, I like the Hand Results ("movies") to be big and use about half the screen. Conversely, I would prefer that the "Who's Online" friends and kibitzers lists use only one or two columns at the far right hand side of the screen but those settings are determined by the Hand Results size and vice-versa so whichever you choose for one of them you get for both of them so switching back and forth requires resizing the window/panel each time.

- 1b) In fact, for viewing who is kibbing at a table, the old Windows client mouseover-the-vulnerability-wheel method is even better, imho.

- Still no way to see "Partnership Bidding Area" as a separate "room." I understand that setting up a new table does not require a "room," but with the web client there is no way I have found to browse all of the users who are currently using partnership bidding tables.

- From the room overview you can view full tables or you can view open tables, but not both at the same time. Why not "both?"

- Card views are bigger and better than previous web client versions, but the sideways views that kibitzers see of east and west hands drive me bats so I use non-card view, which is not as elegant as the pictures of cards. Here the Windows client is preferable.

- I wish there were a way for "one button" kibitzing choice... i.e., choosing which hand to kibitz. It is great that we can choose now, but to do it one has to plod through several menu levels. One button kibbing is particularly useful for use teaching tables. Admittedly it is the same amount of hassle with the standard Windows client, but that is solved for those us using Rogerpf's excellent little "Chat Assistant" windows client add-on utility for BBO.

- In the chat panel, chat from members of one's friends list does not seem to look that different compared to chat from other users. In the windows client they are totally different colors and that is helpful (especially with sound turned off).

- I cannot find a way to save chat text to a local file (other than cutting and pasting to an editor). This is an important function of the windows client for those of us who like to record lesson chat -- very handy if you can't sit there the whole time as you can hit "BRB," record the chat and read it later from the chat.txt file and/or also later send it to other users who may have missed a particular session).

- I miss the wealth of "Other Bridge Options" available in the Windows Client. Okay, I only used chatrooms once or twice for the Marty Bergen/Hondo lessons, but the other stuff was really important, too: Bridgemaster 2000 freebies, DoubleDummy deals, and especially, your treatises on How To Play Bridge. These may seem like "old hat" to seasoned BBO veterans, but they are godsends to new bridge players and new online bridge users. Some easy link to this area from the Web Client would be great.

Touchy-feely asides (continued from top): when I first discovered BBO a couple years ago, I used the web client. At first I didn't even know there was a separate Windows client. Later, when my brother first showed me the Windows client I thought, "How quaint and old fashioned it looks -- almost like the original Gamezone interface before Microsoft bought the IGZ and made it web client based." (I go back awhile, LOL). But then I joined the BIL and later the IAC and the standalone Windows version became my client of choice because it handled the teaching table functions so much better. In my view, even with all the improvements to the web client, the old windows version still does a better job for teaching table stuff. Now, I understand that it must be a pain in the butt to maintain the two totally separate systems and it is clear that almost all R&D and future improvements are going into the web client (which makes sense from the broader user base p.o.v.). But you also must know there is a fair amount of anxiety in the teaching/learning community that the Windows client will disappear eventually. I surely appreciate your continued support of the older system, but I figure that can't go on forever. I wonder if there is some way those of us with a foot in both systems can better assist with the inevitable transition?

Sorry this got so long and involved.

[fred]

woefuwabit, on Oct 20 2009, 06:38 AM, said:

Is there a way to read lobby chat using the web client? Otherwise there doesn't seem to be a way to find and join team matches. What would be great would be a team match matchmaking service.

There is no lobby chat in the web-client. Eventually we will create some kind of nice matchmaking service for team games.

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Also, I've found that the web client likes to repaint itself a lot (which slows down everything), when temporary toolbars appear on the browser (e.g. search toolbar, download status bar, security warning / save password bar). Using firefox 3.5 on 64 bits linux.

As you have probably noticed, the web-client is designed to fit into whatever space is available to it. So if something happens in your browser that changes the available space for the web-client, it will repaint itself.

I don't use Firefox so I don't really understand why you would see these status bars appearing during a BBO session. Maybe running the web-client in its own browser window (instead of in one of several tabs) will help?

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[fred]

Thanks for your comments and suggestions, Eddy. I have read your entire post, but I am going to respond to only a few of your points.

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Card views are bigger and better than previous web client versions, but the sideways views that kibitzers see of east and west hands drive me bats so I use non-card view, which is not as elegant as the pictures of cards.  Here the Windows client is preferable.

I don't really understand this because the default card layout for the web-client is very similar to that of the Windows client. There are some obscure options related to card layout in the web-client - perhaps you have activated one of these. If you want to e-mail a screenshot to fred@bridgebase.com that illustrates the point you are trying to make, it would be helpful.

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I wish there were a way for "one button" kibitzing choice... i.e., choosing which hand to kibitz.  It is great that we can choose now, but to do it one has to plod through several menu levels. 

Just right-click on the seat of the player you want to kibitz. An option for kibitzing that player will be included in the menu that appears.

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In the chat panel, chat from members of one's friends list does not seem to look that different compared to chat from other users.  In the windows client they are totally different colors and that is helpful (especially with sound turned off).

Other people have mentioned this. The color used for private chat will be a lighter shade of green in the next version.

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I cannot find a way to save chat text to a local file (other than cutting and pasting to an editor).

For now this is the only way to do it. Flash's inability to access the local hard disk makes things like this difficult.

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But you also must know there is a fair amount of anxiety in the teaching/learning community that the Windows client will disappear eventually.  I surely appreciate your continued support of the older system, but I figure that can't go on forever.  I wonder if there is some way those of us with a foot in both systems can better assist with the inevitable transition?

No doubt the anxiety you speak of exists throughout the BBO community, but it is not something people should be worrying about. We have no plans to retire the Windows client and it is hard for me to imagine us making plans to do this in the foreseeable future. The number of people using the Windows client is a 6-digit number - it would be rather stupid for us to piss off this many people by forcing them to use a new piece of software.

At some point we may have no choice in the matter. For example, the Windows client will grind to a halt if there are sufficiently many people logged in to BBO at once. I don't know exactly what the limit is, but if current growth patterns continue it will probably be many years before we hit that limit.

What is likely to happen is that we will continue to introduce new features that will be available only in the web-client.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[EddyHaskel]

Hi Fred,

Many thanks for your fast reply!

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Quote

  Card views are bigger and better than previous web client versions, but the sideways views that kibitzers see of east and west hands drive me bats so I use non-card view, which is not as elegant as the pictures of cards.  Here the Windows client is preferable. 

I don't really understand this because the default card layout for the web-client is very similar to that of the Windows client. There are some obscure options related to card layout in the web-client - perhaps you have activated one of these. If you want to e-mail a screenshot to fred@bridgebase.com that illustrates the point you are trying to make, it would be helpful.

I think for some reason i did not see the default view when I first loaded the new web client (after dutifully first flushing the browser cache). I found the right click menus and set everything to horizontal and now all is copacetic.

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Just right-click on the seat of the player you want to kibitz. An option for kibitzing that player will be included in the menu that appears.

Aha, more right clicks! Thanks! I also found how to jump between viewing just one hand and viewing all four hands... that little gem is hidden in the south only right click context menu.

Speaking of kibitzing.. is there a way to "follow" a particular player through a whole tourney? IF there is, I missed that somehow.

re: users/chat color... I figured out what seemed so disconcerting... there is no change when a user you were chatting with or watching logs off! With the Windows client when someone logs off the color of all their previous chat changes color instantly.

Last issue for me, I think: No matter where I sit (or if kibitzing, no matter which seat I choose to view) I always end up as player/deal at the bottom of the table. I can get used to that if I have to, but wasn't there a way to choose to leave one's seat directionally oriented as opposed to always feeling like you're sitting south? Maybe I changed it at one time or another, but now I'll be danged if I can find that menu option again.

I know many users who will be relieved to learn you have no plans to yank the Windows client -- at least until it just stops working on its own when the user base gets too large.

[fred]

EddyHaskel, on Oct 20 2009, 10:39 PM, said:

Speaking of kibitzing.. is there a way to "follow" a particular player through a whole tourney? IF there is, I missed that somehow.

We haven't implemented this yet.

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re: users/chat color... I figured out what seemed so disconcerting... there is no change when a user you were chatting with or watching logs off!  With the Windows client when someone logs off the color of all their previous chat changes color instantly.

Unlike the Windows client, the web-client doesn't "know" when all other players log on or log off, so it is not really practical to implement this color change.

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Last issue for me, I think:  No matter where I sit (or if kibitzing, no matter which seat I choose to view) I always end up as player/deal at the bottom of the table.  I can get used to that if I have to, but wasn't there a way to choose to leave one's seat directionally oriented as opposed to always feeling like you're sitting south?  Maybe I changed it at one time or another, but now I'll be danged if I can find that menu option again.

This is another option that is currently only available in the Windows client.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[paulg]

Playing card update:

After trying to use the web-client all the time, I am getting used to the playing cards and the windows client is the one starting to look a little old. So I think it is largely a case of familiarity and not design.

My remaining concerns (fwiw) are:

• When BBO is very busy, I normally find that I cannot connect with the web-client. This may be a feature of my wireless home network, but I do not have the same problem with the windows client.
  
• When BBO is busy, chat and play slows down considerably. This may be a symptom of the same connection problem.
  
• Uploading prepared hands for teaching and team matches. The new dealer functionality is excellent, but there is no way to replay matches from old vugraph records. I understand how the lack of functionality in flash prevents this currently but it would be nice to have one day.

Paul

[raist]

not to harp on this issue
but both Fred and Uday have mentioned that the firewall issue will be fixed "soon" (specific time frames such as "next week" were given)

i would really like to know when the fix is really coming

i mean, it's ok if you say it's going to take a month, but then please do deliver it in a month!

[fred]

raist, on Oct 21 2009, 06:51 PM, said:

not to harp on this issue
but both Fred and Uday have mentioned that the firewall issue will be fixed "soon" (specific time frames such as "next week" were given)

i would really like to know when the fix is really coming

i mean, it's ok if you say it's going to take a month, but then please do deliver it in a month!

Sorry, but this has turned out to be more complicated (and to take longer obviously) than we had expected. We have not forgot about this, but I don't think it is a good idea for me to make any more predictions as to when you might see a solution. Uday may be in a better position to do that - if he knows something I don't then I am sure he will make a post to this thread.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[fred]

cardsharp, on Oct 21 2009, 11:52 AM, said:

Playing card update:

After trying to use the web-client all the time, I am getting used to the playing cards and the windows client is the one starting to look a little old. So I think it is largely a case of familiarity and not design.

My remaining concerns (fwiw) are:

• When BBO is very busy, I normally find that I cannot connect with the web-client. This may be a feature of my wireless home network, but I do not have the same problem with the windows client.
  
  
  
  
  
• When BBO is busy, chat and play slows down considerably. This may be a symptom of the same connection problem.
  
  
  
  
  
• Uploading prepared hands for teaching and team matches. The new dealer functionality is excellent, but there is no way to replay matches from old vugraph records. I understand how the lack of functionality in flash prevents this currently but it would be nice to have one day.

Paul

Hi Paul,

I am glad you have become used to the playing cards in the web-client. Probably we will find a way to address the teaching table issue you mention before too long.

If anyone else out there has noticed similar performance problems with the web-client, I would appreciate hearing from you!

I doubt your home network is to blame for the slowness you are experiencing (if it was then the Windows client would probably be much slower). Actually one of the big advantages of the web-client is that, unlike the Windows client, its performance should not degrade as BBO becomes busy.

Uday has been investigating to see if the problem might be on our end, but it appears that our servers that control connections to web-clients are performing very well regardless of how many people are online.

It is possible that you have just been the unlucky victim of some transient problem somewhere on the Internet and that the slowness will go away soon. It is also possible that there is something about your computer that is causing this problem. If you haven't done so recently, I suggest you restart your computer, clear your browser's cache, and make sure you have the latest version of Flashplayer installed before trying again.

If the slowness continues, please let me know. In that case it would also be helpful for me to know:

1) The type of operating system and browser you use
2) The day and time in which you experienced slowness

Thanks,

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[DJNeill]

Hi,
I use the latest BBO web client (with tabs on right side) and my partner uses the latest Windows program version of BBO. If I use the function "I have a partner - Take me to a table", shortly after I see him show up at the table assigned to us by the program, his program crashes with a windows error. But then he logs in, I invite him again, and this time it doesn't crash. It has happened both times now like that.

Thanks,
Dan

[dicklont]

When I logon BBO does not tell me how many BB$ are on my account.
It would be nice when it appears on my profile instead.

[barmar]

dicklont, on Oct 24 2009, 03:15 PM, said:

When I logon BBO does not tell me how many BB$ are on my account.

That's strange, it does for me. It displays for a few seconds after logging in.

If you want to see your balance later, click on "My BB$ Account" then "Account Activity".