[hkcream]

Hello I am a beginner and encounter this hand today as south:

Scoring: IMP

---

The biding goes like this:

North South
_____ 1♥
4♥___ pass


His responses mean 'If you have minimum, we can reach game' to me. I pass because I have minimum value for opening. It turns out that our hand fit very well and I reach 6 for the play. So how to we reach a slam contract? (West has the ♣K with 2 clubs so grand slam was not possible)

[Winstonm]

Although 4H is a poor bid, I doubt anything gets you to slam with these combined holding.

I can pretty much assure you I would not get there. If responder decides to try a 3S splinter bid first, there is some outside hope of slam, but even then it would take some pretty inspired continuations to propel to slam.

Having said that, where I normally think it best to introduce a long suit (like the diamonds) with responding hand, in this case where there is an overabundance of trumps a splinter makes more sense than starting with 2D.

[MattieShoe]

I agree, North is too strong for 4♥ under SAYC anyway -- that indicates 6-10 points and long hearts. Nothing you could do in response but pass.

Best bet for finding slam I think:
S: 1♥ (13+ points, 5+ card heart suit, etc)
N: 3♠ (13+ points, 4+ hearts, singleton low spade)
S: 4♣ (cuebid 1st round control of clubs)
N: 4♦ (cuebid 1st round control of diamonds)

Now you'd know you have a 10+ card fit, 1st round control of every outside suit, you can ruff two spade losers from your hand, partner has ace for your singleton diamond and you can ruff any diamond losers from his hand... But you're a bit in the dark as to where the high hearts are. Not sure what would be correct after that. 6♥ seems a bit gambling but given what you know about the fit, possible...

[ONEferBRID]

hkcream, on Sep 26 2009, 01:49 PM, said:

Hello I am a beginner and encounter this hand today as south:

Dealer: South Vul: E/W Scoring: IMP

♠ 8 ♥ AKT32 ♦ AT432 ♣ J3 ♠ A42 ♥ J87654 ♦ 5 ♣ AQ4

Do you play the forcing raise: Jacoby2NT ?

If so, you will find out about Opener's Diam shortness.

"Shortness-opposite-other shortness" can yield lots of tricks on a low combined hcp count.... especially when Responder has more than 4 cd support:

1♥ - Jac2NT!
3♦ - 3♠ ( cue )
4♣ - 4NT
5♥( 2 - hQ) - 5♠* ( specific K-ask, guaranteeing all key cards and the trump Q or extra length )
6♥ ( no outside K's )
________________________________________________________
*Either black K would have been a parking place for North's black loser
Other replies to the 5♠-ask:
5NT = ♠K ( NT shows the asked for feature )
6♣ = ♣K ....

[jdonn]

Winstonm, on Sep 26 2009, 01:57 PM, said:

I can pretty much assure you I would not get there.  If responder decides to try a 3S splinter bid first, there is some outside hope of slam, but even then it would take some pretty inspired continuations to propel to slam.

I don't think it would take much inspiration, south just has to know how to visualize. x AKxx xxxx Kxxx is a minimum splinter with the flattest shape and slam is on 2-1 hearts, or you would even survive 3-0 hearts if the clubs break and they don't lead a diamond. And once south cuebids once, I don't see why north would be discouraged either.

[P_Marlowe]

hkcream, on Sep 26 2009, 01:49 PM, said:

Hello I am a beginner and encounter this hand today as south:
<snip>

His responses mean 'If you have minimum, we can reach game' to me. I pass because I have minimum value for opening. It turns out that our hand fit very well and I reach 6 for the play. So how to we reach a slam contract?  (West has the ♣K with 2 clubs so grand slam was not possible)

You will discard the following, but maybe not, but maybe not, in which
case I am pretty sure, that your game and your results will improve a lot.

My advice is, that you should ignore the fact, that there are contracts higher
than 4S.
I know, that slam bidding is fun, but ignore it, learn how to fight for the part
score, learn how to bid game.
And if you have a firm understanding, than you wont have trouble bidding
slams.

And the second thing (less controvers): Ignore the specific result, which could
be obtained, to decide, if you want to be in a specific contract is independ,
which opponent holds certain cards, i.e. even if East had the King of clubs, you
would not want to be in 7H, unless East tells you this, and how do you really
think East will tell you the truth?

With kind regards
Marlowe

[MattieShoe]

P_Marlowe, on Sep 26 2009, 04:03 PM, said:

You will discard the following, but maybe not, but maybe  not, in which
case I am pretty sure, that your game and your results will improve a lot.

My advice is, that you should ignore the fact, that there are contracts higher
than 4S.

Sounds like how I bid

I almost totally agree with you... While missing the occasional fit-based slam is not a big deal, I wouldn't avoid bidding them when it's obvious. Partner opens 1NT and you have a balanced 18 HCP, he'll murder you if you respond with 3NT.

I wrote a little script to check on my own bidding issues, but all it takes is changing a username... hkcream results over the last month:

Missed Slam: -3.32 IMPs avg (16 hands)
Bid Slam: -3.24 IMPs avg (19 hands)

4 level Bids:
Set - 26 times (46%)
+0/1 - 23 times (41%)
+2/3 - 7 times (13%)

Lowering the 46% where you go down in a 4 bid will yield much more significant results than missing the occasional fit-based slam :-)

[hkcream]

Thanks for all the helpful and immediate response!

While I need some time digesting the biding system introduced, may be I am too ambitious to avoid missing every slam chance.

I am in a hurry, but thank you again, you guys are so helpful.

[neilkaz]

This hand shows the problem with jumping to game with a hand that is a clear game force. The jump to game should be preemptive in nature.

Others have shown sequences either from a splinter or from Jacoby 2NT which get you to slam.

I'd honestly hope to bid this slam in my partnerships.

[P_Marlowe]

hkcream, on Sep 26 2009, 08:57 PM, said:

Thanks for all the helpful and immediate response!

While I need some time digesting the biding system introduced, may be I am too ambitious to avoid missing every slam chance.

I am in a hurry, but thank you again, you guys are so helpful.

Being ambitous is good and asking questions is good.
But to have a fair chance to reach most of the reasonable slam
you need to have a firm grip on the basics.
And if you regular reach thin games, i.e. games with a success
rate of 40% or higher (I dont have the precise cut of percentage),
than you will also have enough conventional stuff av. to have a
good shot at the higher level contracts.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Winstonm]

jdonn, on Sep 26 2009, 03:28 PM, said:

Winstonm, on Sep 26 2009, 01:57 PM, said:

I can pretty much assure you I would not get there.  If responder decides to try a 3S splinter bid first, there is some outside hope of slam, but even then it would take some pretty inspired continuations to propel to slam.

I don't think it would take much inspiration, south just has to know how to visualize. x AKxx xxxx Kxxx is a minimum splinter with the flattest shape and slam is on 2-1 hearts, or you would even survive 3-0 hearts if the clubs break and they don't lead a diamond. And once south cuebids once, I don't see why north would be discouraged either.

I think you missed this part of the original post.

Quote

Hello I am a beginner

To discuss nuanced bidding meanings might only confuse the issue for this poster. I don't know if the poster even understands what a splinter bid means, much less how to evaluate hands in light of this bid.

Playing cumbersome methods, I doubt I would get to slam on these cards.
Even with a splinter, I doubt I would get to slam unless I added another round of complexity to my system and that would be separating the strength of a follow up 3N versus direct cue bids.

Quote

I don't think it would take much inspiration, south just has to know how to visualize.

Maybe he visualizes x, Qxxx, AKJxx, Jxx

[jdonn]

Winstonm, on Sep 27 2009, 09:38 AM, said:

jdonn, on Sep 26 2009, 03:28 PM, said:

Winstonm, on Sep 26 2009, 01:57 PM, said:

I can pretty much assure you I would not get there.  If responder decides to try a 3S splinter bid first, there is some outside hope of slam, but even then it would take some pretty inspired continuations to propel to slam.

I don't think it would take much inspiration, south just has to know how to visualize. x AKxx xxxx Kxxx is a minimum splinter with the flattest shape and slam is on 2-1 hearts, or you would even survive 3-0 hearts if the clubs break and they don't lead a diamond. And once south cuebids once, I don't see why north would be discouraged either.

I think you missed this part of the original post.

Quote

Hello I am a beginner

To discuss nuanced bidding meanings might only confuse the issue for this poster. I don't know if the poster even understands what a splinter bid means, much less how to evaluate hands in light of this bid.

Um, you brought up the splinter, not me?! In fact I wouldn't even splinter. I'm saying if north did splinter then slam is easily reached with good evaluation. If proper evaluation after a splinter is too nuanced for a beginner then perhaps you were remiss to mention a splinter bid in the first place.

[Winstonm]

jdonn, on Sep 27 2009, 01:12 PM, said:

Winstonm, on Sep 27 2009, 09:38 AM, said:

jdonn, on Sep 26 2009, 03:28 PM, said:

Winstonm, on Sep 26 2009, 01:57 PM, said:

I can pretty much assure you I would not get there.  If responder decides to try a 3S splinter bid first, there is some outside hope of slam, but even then it would take some pretty inspired continuations to propel to slam.

I don't think it would take much inspiration, south just has to know how to visualize. x AKxx xxxx Kxxx is a minimum splinter with the flattest shape and slam is on 2-1 hearts, or you would even survive 3-0 hearts if the clubs break and they don't lead a diamond. And once south cuebids once, I don't see why north would be discouraged either.

I think you missed this part of the original post.

Quote

Hello I am a beginner

To discuss nuanced bidding meanings might only confuse the issue for this poster. I don't know if the poster even understands what a splinter bid means, much less how to evaluate hands in light of this bid.

Um, you brought up the splinter, not me?! In fact I wouldn't even splinter. I'm saying if north did splinter then slam is easily reached with good evaluation. If proper evaluation after a splinter is too nuanced for a beginner then perhaps you were remiss to mention a splinter bid in the first place.

Perhaps so. No quibble about that.