[mtvesuvius]

2♣ - 2♦
2NT - 3♥
3♠ - 5♦
5♠ - 5NT
6♣ - 6♥
7♠ - (P) - P - (X) - AP
5♦ was Exclusion
5♠ was 3/0
5NT was King Asking
6♣ showed K♣
6♥ asking for the K♥
7♠ was a "Wing it"
I was South and had to decide how to justify our bidding... Where is the queen? (RHO doubled)

---

So, after this highly revealing auction, RHO (Owen Lien) decides to double. Who has the queen?

Also, as a bonus question, where would you like to play this, and how would you bid it?

EDIT: Lead is T♥

[Jlall]

Owen online = totally random. He probably doubled because he thought no one else would bid 7 (like if he had the DA) so it is basically free.

IF he is trying to play mindgames and not be totally random, he probably has the SQ and thinks you will assume he wouldn't double with the SQ (level 2 thinking). Level 2 is the type of level guys like this are generally on.

I would thus play him for the SQ because it's either 50/50 or he's trying to level me and it's 100/0 if you believe I can out mindgame him.

[akhare]

What was the opening lead?

Anyway, since this this question wouldn't have been posted if RHO has Q...4th, I am going to assume that it isn't the case .

[Jlall]

BTW how does 5N not ask for the queen of trumps? First step = queen ask, Second step = king ask... that helps you not get to 7 off the queen of trumps.

Also, transferring is a very bad bid, just start with stayman. Oh maybe you play puppet stayman and can't bid smolen after bidding stayman? Too bad. Another reason not to play puppet stayman.

[gerry]

Jlall, on Sep 16 2009, 08:30 PM, said:

Also, transferring is a very bad bid, just start with stayman. Oh maybe you play puppet stayman and can't bid smolen after bidding stayman? Too bad. Another reason not to play puppet stayman.

A cute idea I stole from somewhere (Romex?) that helps ameliorate this problem:

after 2n-3♣:
3♦=not 4♥ not 5♠ then 3♥=4♠, 3♠=5+♠
3♥=4-5♥ then 3♠ asks
3♠=5♠
3n=44+♥+♠

[kenrexford]

Jlall, on Sep 16 2009, 08:30 PM, said:

BTW how does 5N not ask for the queen of trumps? First step = queen ask, Second step = king ask... that helps you not get to 7 off the queen of trumps.

Also, transferring is a very bad bid, just start with stayman. Oh maybe you play puppet stayman and can't bid smolen after bidding stayman? Too bad. Another reason not to play puppet stayman.

Good reason to play Muppet stayman, or whatever it is called, though.

This "where's the Queen?" question is much easier to deal with in 7♥.

[kenrexford]

gerry, on Sep 16 2009, 11:12 PM, said:

Jlall, on Sep 16 2009, 08:30 PM, said:

Also, transferring is a very bad bid, just start with stayman. Oh maybe you play puppet stayman and can't bid smolen after bidding stayman? Too bad. Another reason not to play puppet stayman.

A cute idea I stole from somewhere (Romex?) that helps ameliorate this problem:

after 2n-3♣:
3♦=not 4♥ not 5♠ then 3♥=4♠, 3♠=5+♠
3♥=4-5♥ then 3♠ asks
3♠=5♠
3n=44+♥+♠

Close. I think you have it off a tad.

Most of it is right. But, after 3♦ by Opener (2-3♥, 2-4♠), it is better to play:

3♠ by Responder shows 5♥; handles Responder with 3♠/5♥ in case opener has 5♠/2♥.

3♥ by Responder shows 4+ spades; Opener rebids 3NT with 2, 3♠ with three, or 4 of anything with 4 (cues).

[Fluffy]

I'd like to play 7♥.

Justin is a lot better than me on mind games. I would play LHO for ♠Q all the time, my simplistic approach to thinking pays off when my opponents get impressed thining I am at the 3rd level when I am actually at first lol.

[pooltuna]

mtvesuvius, on Sep 16 2009, 08:19 PM, said:

2♣ - 2♦
2NT - 3♥
3♠ - 5♦
5♠ - 5NT
6♣ - 6♥
7♠ - (P) - P - (X) - AP
5♦ was Exclusion
5♠ was 3/0
5NT was King Asking
6♣ showed K♣
6♥ asking for the K♥
7♠ was a "Wing it"
I was South and had to decide how to justify our bidding... Where is the queen? (RHO doubled)

---

So, after this highly revealing auction, RHO (Owen Lien) decides to double. Who has the queen?

Also, as a bonus question, where would you like to play this, and how would you bid it?

EDIT: Lead is T♥

The only reason I can see for a lightner is to prevent partner from leading a trump so I play RHO for it

[uday]

I'm w/pooltuna.

Assuming RHO does not ruff the opening lead, we know he's either

1. Doubled with the DA knowing dummy is void
2. Made a totally random double trying for something out of nothing
3. Made a fake lightner double to deflect the H lead bec. they have the SQ

I imagine that our Juniors are unlikely to have perpetrated (1), and are more likely to have done (3) than (2).

[Jlall]

uday, on Sep 17 2009, 10:35 AM, said:

I'm w/pooltuna.

Assuming RHO does not ruff the opening lead, we know he's either

1. Doubled with the DA knowing dummy is void
2. Made a totally random double trying for something out of nothing
3. Made a fake lightner double to deflect the H lead bec. they have the SQ

I imagine that our Juniors are unlikely to have perpetrated (1), and are more likely to have done (3) than (2).

Maybe but there is no chance that partner will lead a trump when the opps have not asked for the queen, but have shown all the keycards plus many kings. Maybe depends on what you think of partner though, I guess some people ALWAYS lead a trump.

[ONEferBRID]

Jlall, on Sep 16 2009, 08:30 PM, said:

BTW how does 5N not ask for the queen of trumps? First step = queen ask, Second step = king ask... that helps you not get to 7 off the queen of trumps.

Also, transferring is a very bad bid, just start with stayman. Oh maybe you play puppet stayman and can't bid smolen after bidding stayman? Too bad. Another reason not to play puppet stayman.

You can "have your cake and eat it too" ... only IF 5H had been the 0 or 3 key card reply. Then you can surreptitiously use "5S" as a trump Q-ask.

It has long been accepted that when the asker is unsure of the key card number -- the low or high number-- then he bids 5-trump and the replier bids 6-trump with the higher number.

Obviously here, if the replier has 3 ( excluding the Diam Ace ), he certainly doesn't want to pass 5S, and he "knows" partner doesn't want him to pass w/3.
The current accepted practice is to bid as if the trump Q were asked for:
5D - 5H ( 0 or 3, excluding the ♦A )
5S - ??
      5NT= ♠Q and no outside K's
      6C/6D/6H = ♠Q and K of bid suit
      6S = NO ♠Q

This way 5NT can remain as the K-ask.

[gwnn]

Jlall, on Sep 17 2009, 03:28 AM, said:

IF he is trying to play mindgames and not be totally random, he probably has the SQ and thinks you will assume he wouldn't double with the SQ (level 2 thinking). Level 2 is the type of level guys like this are generally on.

in these mindgames odd numbered levels are equivalent and so are even numbered levels?

[Jlall]

gwnn, on Sep 19 2009, 02:59 PM, said:

Jlall, on Sep 17 2009, 03:28 AM, said:

IF he is trying to play mindgames and not be totally random, he probably has the SQ and thinks you will assume he wouldn't double with the SQ (level 2 thinking). Level 2 is the type of level guys like this are generally on.

in these mindgames odd numbered levels are equivalent and so are even numbered levels?

Correct, common situation in poker hands.