[porh]

♠AKQJx
♥KJx
♦A98x
♣x

Vul against NV
RHO opens 4H.

Pass or 4S?

[mike777]

4s

[Jlall]

You might make a game!

[neilkaz]

Easy 4♠ call for me

[mtvesuvius]

4♠ should be pretty easy here. Since this is posted, LHO probably has 6♠.

[pooltuna]

Jlall, on Sep 8 2009, 06:49 PM, said:

You might make a game!

Does this comment mean you are bidding 4NT?

[porh]

I was just wondering cos i bidded 4S too and it went down 2 on heart ruffs.. Dummy came down with ♠xxx ♥xx ♦JTxx ♣Qxxx

Would anyone bid differently if NV vs V?

[kenrexford]

porh, on Sep 8 2009, 09:35 PM, said:

I was just wondering cos i bidded 4S too and it went down 2 on heart ruffs.. Dummy came down with ♠xxx ♥xx ♦JTxx ♣Qxxx

Would anyone bid differently if NV vs V?

Some good game bids fail.

[Codo]

porh, on Sep 9 2009, 11:35 AM, said:

I was just wondering cos i bidded 4S too and it went down 2 on heart ruffs.. Dummy came down with ♠xxx ♥xx ♦JTxx ♣Qxxx

Would anyone bid differently if NV vs V?

What is your alternative?

When you bid 4 Spade you know that you do not have 10 tricks to claim. So sometimes you fail. This is why they preempt. You need to make a descission and sometimes this descisssion was not successful.

So in this hand passing or doubling for penalty had worked. This is no surprise, because we all know that there are hands where these bids had worked. But we all think that 4 spade with the given hand had worked more often then any other bid.

[P_Marlowe]

4S, and you could be weaker for the bid.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[P_Marlowe]

porh, on Sep 8 2009, 09:35 PM, said:

I was just wondering cos i bidded 4S too and it went down 2 on heart ruffs.. Dummy came down with ♠xxx ♥xx ♦JTxx ♣Qxxx

Would anyone bid differently if NV vs V?

Sometimes partner happens to hold a hand, whith a below avg. strength.

You have 18HCP, the preemptor will usually have a hand with 7-8HCP, since the
preempt was at game level preempt, it could be based on a stronger hand.
But on the other hand they are green, we are red, if I am reading the vulnerability
right, and if this is so, this would counter the game level preempt argument.
Overall you wont go to far wrong, if you assign the preemtor with 7-8HCP.

This leaves 14-15HCP, the expected share for your partner is 7-8, which means
that the expected combined strength for your partnership is 25-26, with that
strength, you want to be in game?
And since there is also a argument, why you can be nearly 100% sure to have a 8
card fit, spade being the most likely suit.
8 card fit in spades with 25-26HCP, the game you want to play is 4S.

Unfortunately, expected strength does not always mean, that it is actual strength,
blame it either on luck or on partner, good partners will always have, what one
can expect.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[NickRW]

porh, on Sep 9 2009, 02:35 AM, said:

I was just wondering cos i bidded 4S too and it went down 2 on heart ruffs.. Dummy came down with ♠xxx ♥xx ♦JTxx ♣Qxxx

Would anyone bid differently if NV vs V?

The other night I picked up first hand, red/red JT98xxx xx xx Ax. Was playing with a good but not very familiar partner - I wondered what he'd make of 3S on this hand. Eventually I decided I'd have a go even though it was a bit on the light side (ok - way light for some of you). LHO passed. Pard paused slightly and put down 4S. RHO was sitting with a really nice hand and a long club suit and a spade void - 5C was his call - but of course he didn't know whether pard had made his call to be obstructive or had cards. Quickly it became apparent that it was cards when he put the X on the table. Dummy had Qxx in spades and virtually nothing else. RHO got absolutely minced for a clear bottom his way - but to be fair to him I probably would have bid as he did - on another hand his pard might have had a couple of aces and put him in a making slam.

Preempts sometimes backfire - and sometimes they work. Bridge is a game of percentages.

Nick

[Hanoi5]

4♠, too. But definitely having hearts is not a good sign, what would have partner done over double? Anyway it's not normal, 4♠ should be clear.

[fromageGB]

Everyone seems to say 4♠ is automatic, and at this vulnerability I agree. But any other vulnerability and it's a more open decision. As Marlowe says, I expect we have a 25-26 count on average, and that's good, but look at suit length. Opener is expected to have 8 hearts, so his partner is expected to have 1. That makes a 9 card fit. I have 5 spades, give opener his one or two spades, and partner is going to have an expected 3 spades. So that makes an 8 card fit.

Enough to bid game, sure, but with TNT=17, if we make 10 tricks (the expectation), the expectation is that opener playing in hearts will make 7. So if we are all green, 500 beats 420, and all red, 800 beats 620. A close call. At IMPs I bid 4S, at matchpoints I double. The way the pictures lie, it could well be 10 tricks in spades and only 6 in hearts. And green against red, then no contest.

So vulnerability definitely affects my choice, and scoring method too.

[aguahombre]

fromageGB, on Sep 9 2009, 01:02 PM, said:

Everyone seems to say 4♠ is automatic, and at this vulnerability I agree.  But any other vulnerability and it's a more open decision.   As Marlowe says, I expect we have a 25-26 count on average, and that's good, but look at suit length.  Opener is expected to have 8 hearts, so his partner is expected to have 1.  That makes a 9 card fit.  I have 5 spades, give opener his one or two spades, and partner is going to have an expected 3 spades. So that makes an 8 card fit.

Enough to bid game, sure, but with TNT=17, if we make 10 tricks (the expectation), the expectation is that opener playing in hearts will make 7.  So if we are all green, 500 beats 420, and all red, 800 beats 620.  A close call.  At IMPs I bid 4S, at matchpoints I double. The way the pictures lie, it could well be 10 tricks in spades and only 6 in hearts.  And green against red, then no contest.

So vulnerability definitely affects my choice, and scoring method too.

LOTT doesnt quite compute like that when there are one or more looooonnnnnggg suits about.

[kennye]

Clearly you double and hope partner can bid 4S. If he passes you are probably beating the hand.

Now for a serious comment; bid 4S like every other human; you are not on "The Planet of the Apes."