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Slam try after 2NT rebid our system got in the way

#1 User is offline   dicklont 

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Posted 2009-September-06, 04:28

Scoring: MP

1 - 1
2NT - ?

Partner opens 1 and rebids 2NT (18/19 forcing).
We agreed that 3 is the weakest response (5/6 hcp 5 hearts) and is passable.
So I start with 3, checkback and partner responds 3 showing 4 spades and 2 hearts, when we have 3card support we show that first.
I settled for game for lack of a good method to make a slam try in hearts.
And regretted it a soon as the dummy came down......
A532
AQ
A1094
KQ10

Should we simply make 3 forcing after the 2NT rebid or are there other (better) methods around?
--
Finding your own mistakes is more productive than looking for partner's. It improves your game and is good for your soul. (Nige1)
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#2 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2009-September-06, 05:12

whatever fits you, americans will tell you to play wolf or transfer or whatever, so you can make partner bid 3 and then you cuebid.

I am just a simple soul who plays 2NT GF and bids 3 to show GF values with 6 hearts.
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#3 User is offline   EricK 

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Posted 2009-September-06, 05:41

After the 2NT rebid, you know that partner has at least 2, and he knows you know it. Hence if you bid checkback, discover partner has 4 and 2 and still just bid 4, you are showing that your checkback bid was some sort of slammish move (otherwise you would just have rebid 4 straight away).

Because of his control rich hand and excellent support (in context), I think partner should have made some move After 4.
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#4 User is offline   xcurt 

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Posted 2009-September-06, 07:10

i am not a big upgrader but i would open 2nt on that. agree partners valuation
is an issue.
"It is not enough to be a good player. You must also play well." -- Tarrasch
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#5 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2009-September-06, 08:00

Partner's 19-count looks like a 19-count to me. The yucky heart holding makes up for the aces.

Over 2NT I'd bid 4, splinter for hearts. That should get partner going.

Quote

americans will tell you to play wolf or transfer or whatever

Yes. We could forgive all the other cultural and political crimes of America and its people, but their insistence on being able to bid sensibly after a 2NT rebid is beyond the pale.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#6 User is offline   andy_h 

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Posted 2009-September-06, 08:09

Yeah, get some simple gadgets should make do with most hands. Like Fluffy said, either wolff or transfers work well enough. If you had no system whatsoever except for 3 being checkback and 3M being NF, I don't think I'd try 4 if it will be ambiguous.
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#7 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2009-September-06, 08:40

Fluffy, on Sep 6 2009, 06:12 AM, said:

whatever fits you, americans will tell you to play wolf or transfer or whatever, so you can make partner bid 3 and then you cuebid.

I am just a simple soul who plays 2NT GF and bids 3 to show GF values with 6 hearts.

Not all Americans. Some of us are simple souls, too. But our 3H is either/or:

6 cards in hearts and too strong for a Jump signoff OR
5 cards only, checking back enroute to 3NT.

this leaves minor suit bids natural to explore for slam and for strain, and leaves Wolff to those who respond without responses. With a 6HCP response opposite 18, we live with game (simple souls).
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#8 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2009-September-06, 09:47

Fluffy, on Sep 6 2009, 06:12 AM, said:

whatever fits you, americans will tell you to play wolf or transfer or whatever, so you can make partner bid 3 and then you cuebid.

I am just a simple soul who plays 2NT GF and bids 3 to show GF values with 6 hearts.

Me, too. Of course, this means I don't get to respond with 3-4 HCP but I find that no big deal.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#9 User is offline   ONEferBRID 

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Posted 2009-September-06, 10:05

gnasher, on Sep 6 2009, 09:00 AM, said:

Partner's 19-count looks like a 19-count to me. The yucky heart holding makes up for the aces.

Over 2NT I'd bid 4, splinter for hearts.  That should get partner going.

Quote

americans will tell you to play wolf or transfer or whatever

Yes. We could forgive all the other cultural and political crimes of America and its people, but their insistence on being able to bid sensibly after a 2NT rebid is beyond the pale.

The 4 splinter rates a 10 ( out of 10 ) for me !

For years I've been enthralled with the Wolff Relay ( which in corporates a sign-off ) . It has some neat features, but has limitations as as well -- no convention is perfect.
But most recently, I was introduced to the Transfer Method with the "Kit Woolsey Hand" that I posted in Interesting Bridge Hands here in the forum.
Gnasher showed some of the sequences there, but is there a reference for the complete system?

I'm just assuming how it might go here with Transfers:
1 - 1
2NT - 3! ( transfer to Hts, 5+cards )
3 - 3 ( cuebid implying 6cds Hts )*
4** - 4NT ( RKC for Hts )
5( 0 or 3 ) - 6
______________________________________________________________
* I'm assuming there are other ways for Responder to show 4s/5h, or a 4-4, etc.
And I'm assuming if only 5cds Hts, Responder would rebid 3NT instead.
** 4 = advance cue for Hts.... just what Responder needed to hear although
a Club lead may not be completely safe if K and no Q .

- - Don - -
Don Stenmark ( TWOferBRIDGE )
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#10 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2009-September-06, 19:01

Fluffy, on Sep 6 2009, 01:12 PM, said:

whatever fits you, americans will tell you to play wolf or transfer or whatever, so you can make partner bid 3 and then you cuebid.

I am just a simple soul who plays 2NT GF and bids 3 to show GF values with 6 hearts.

Not only Americans. Transfers after a jump to 2NT is very easy to use, and is also efficient.
Kind regards,
Harald
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#11 User is offline   ONEferBRID 

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Posted 2009-September-06, 19:26

skaeran, on Sep 6 2009, 08:01 PM, said:

Transfers after a jump to 2NT is very easy to use, and is also efficient.

I'm interested in the method.
Could you provide me with a website for the Transfer structure.

tak,

donstenmark@gmail.com
Don Stenmark ( TWOferBRIDGE )
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#12 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2009-September-07, 00:00

I have posted this before, but quite a while ago. I play a 2NT rebid by opener as a GF, either based on a bal 18-20 hand, (Maybe even with 4 card support for responder), or based on an excellent suit of one's own.
3C over this is a relay to ask for hand type.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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