[fachiru]

Scoring: IMP

---

You pass as dealer and it goes:
P-1♦-1♠-2♦
?

How do you evaluate these possible bids here playing with no special agreements but with a competent partner?
1) 2♠
2) X
3) 3♦

[bid_em_up]

Fachiru said:

Scoring: IMP

You pass as dealer and it goes:P-(1♦)-1♠-(2♦)-?

---

How do you evaluate these possible bids here playing with no special agreements but with a competent partner?
1) 2♠
2) X
3) 3♦

3♦ and X each have reasonable arguments on both the plus and minus side, I would not fault either. Personally, I tend to lean toward the negative double with this sort of holding since I can raise a rebid of 2♠ to 3♠ and if partner manages to find a 2♥ bid, I would prefer to play 4♥ instead of 4♠ on this holding. If partner converts this to a penalty X (gulp), well, at least I have two aces on the defensive side.

2♠ gets a negative score assigned if possible.

jmoo.

[gwnn]

1) 0
2) 1
3) 100

[andy_h]

3♦, hate everything else. Why mess around when you can tell partner that you have a good raise in spades? We may never get a chance later at a safe level.

[Fluffy]

because partner sometimes has 5 clubs and 4 spades, double might get you to the best spot.

[OleBerg]

♣

[pooltuna]

fachiru, on Sep 4 2009, 01:52 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP

---

You pass as dealer and it goes:
P-1♦-1♠-2♦
?

How do you evaluate these possible bids here playing with no special agreements but with a competent partner?
1) 2♠
2) X
3) 3♦

I treat 1♠ like an opening call and make a limit raise which for me would be 3♠

[billw55]

Fluffy, on Sep 4 2009, 02:40 PM, said:

because partner sometimes has 5 clubs and 4 spades, double might get you to the best spot.

hm, my partners would never overcall with a 4 card major.

I would also choose 3♦.

[andy_h]

Fluffy, on Sep 5 2009, 06:40 AM, said:

because partner sometimes has 5 clubs and 4 spades, double might get you to the best spot.

I would say partner has 5S much much more often than not, but then you might say it's a style thing. I would need considerable reason to overcall a 4cM and tend not to do it often.

But umm...say you double (takeout showing unbid suits) what if partner bids clubs? How do you know if he's 4-5 or 5-4? What's even worse is if I dbl now and the opponents compete to 4D before I even show my 3card support.

[bid_em_up]

pooltuna, on Sep 4 2009, 02:46 PM, said:

I treat 1♠ like an opening call and make a limit raise which for me would be 3♠

Just curious, do you always make immediate limit raises when holding only three card support?

[Jlall]

double

[pooltuna]

bid_em_up, on Sep 4 2009, 02:59 PM, said:

pooltuna, on Sep 4 2009, 02:46 PM, said:

I treat 1♠ like an opening call and make a limit raise which for me would be 3♠

Just curious, do you always make immediate limit raises when holding only three card support?

yep I treat it like it is a 5 card suit overcall as well

[nigel_k]

Advantages of double are there may be a better spot and you can describe your hand type well by later supporting spades. I'm not worried about a four card overcall because it will be a good suit and the 4-3 may play quite well.

Advantages 3♦ are that it's easier for partner to make the right decision if they bid more diamonds quickly. Also when you double then bid spades partner might not expect such good support.

I'd say 3♦ 100, Dbl 70.

[francosca]

Can't see value in anything else but 3♦... let partner know what you have NOW

[gnasher]

3♦. If I double and it goes 4♦-pass-pass, how happy will I be?

[Jlall]

gnasher, on Sep 4 2009, 07:02 PM, said:

3♦. If I double and it goes 4♦-pass-pass, how happy will I be?

I'd be perfectly happy bidding 4S on this auction

[gnasher]

Jlall, on Sep 5 2009, 03:11 AM, said:

gnasher, on Sep 4 2009, 07:02 PM, said:

3♦.  If I double and it goes 4♦-pass-pass, how happy will I be?

I'd be perfectly happy bidding 4S on this auction

You might not be so happy with your result when partner has some mundane overcall like KJxxx Kxx Kxx xx.

Double risks having to guess when you could have involved partner instead. We can argue about how big a problem that is, but it's definitely a disadvantage. So, what's the upside of double?

[Winstonm]

I am not as happy with the double as some as I do not believe it really implies such good spade support. I also do not like 3D so much, but to me it is a better expression of my values - I hold a good spade raise - than other bids.

[Flameous]

Earlier I used to X these hands. After seeing one too many times to being overcompeted for me to not being able to show my hand, I decided to go back to basic principle of Larry Cohen and many others: "Show your support"

[aguahombre]

maybe the doublers are shell shocked from too many 4c/oc's. I would double if my partner had done so, more than once in the past 5 years.