[rduran1216]

---

I held south's hand tonight.

In the auction, it passed around to me and I opened to 2C.

So the auction goes

2C 2D
3S 4NT
5D 5H
6D 6S

Do you agree with our auction and do we want to be in 6S?

[Phil]

You don't want to be in 6 against good opponents, since there's a good chance you'll get a club lead. Further, RHO had a chance to double the redundant trump queen ask of 5♥, so there's an even better chance you aren't getting a heart lead.

Against randoms I want to be in 6. They are as likely as not to bang down their ♥A as anything, and they might lead a diamond. I've even seen trump leads from bad players on auctions like this when they 'didn't like any other lead'.

[rduran1216]

Phil, on Sep 1 2009, 11:26 PM, said:

You don't want to be in 6 against good opponents, since there's a good chance you'll get a club lead. Further, RHO had a chance to double the redundant trump queen ask of 5♥, so there's an even better chance you aren't getting a heart lead.

Against randoms I want to be in 6. They are as likely as not to bang down their ♥A as anything, and they might lead a diamond. I've even seen trump leads from bad players on auctions like this when they 'didn't like any other lead'.

I got a trump lead.

But if its bad we get to 6S, which bid should be different?

[jillybean]

You can't stay out of 6 after 2♣:2♦ 3♠.
I'd open 2♣, rebid 4♠ and trust partner to make a move with 2aces.

[neilkaz]

jillybean, on Sep 1 2009, 11:31 PM, said:

You can't stay out of 6 after 2♣:2♦ 3♠.
I'd open 2♣, rebid 4♠ and trust partner to make a move with 2aces.

What's stronger after opening 2♣, a direct jump to 4♠ or a jump to 3♠?

They both show the type of hand, but doesn't the jump to 3♠ seem more S/I since it saves some room for exploration, while the jump to 4 is likely 9 to 9.5 tricks (again super solid long ♠) hoping for a wee bit from PD to make game ?

Anyhow...I'll take my chances on slam here, but I don't want DPD (dopey pard) asking for the queen when I've allready shown solid trumps.

[benlessard]

For sure i want to be in 6.

If 3M isnt 4M+ long minor than I like to play that 3M a solid suit with a void somewhere and 4M no void.



Something like
2C----2D
4S----4Nt
5K----6S

[Codo]

Of course we want to be in 6. They must lead club to beat it and even when they do, you can survive when they are not able to cash a heart at trick two.

[mcphee]

The words, of course you want to be in 6 work for me when they do not find the C lead. I am not sure I would be happy reaching slam and would expect to go down more often than make.

[gnasher]

I wouldn't want to be in slam if South had shown ♦K and denied ♣K. Is that what 6♦ meant?

[Codo]

I am not sure either whether I want to be in slam after this bidding. But I doubt that this bidding, where responder jumps to RCKB and makes a further inquiry after he knows that a KC is missing should guide us.

So assuming 2 Club as your strong opening, how had you bid?

In a normal sequence, responder would show a club controls and later one KC. Sorry, this bidding does not scream for a club lead at all.

[ONEferBRID]

Why did the weak hand go 4NT-RKC ?

( not that it would have mattered here )

[rduran1216]

well I think everyone opens my hand 2C

2D promises a King+, from there 3S is a bit like 1H-2C-3H would be in 2/1.

I chose to bid 3S, because it isn't like my spades are all I have. If you take away my K of diamonds and replace it with a 4 I'd bid 4S over 2D

So now keycard, and a queen ask, which in retrospect was a bit redundant because I've already promised those cards with a 3S bid

[gnasher]

Codo, on Sep 2 2009, 01:25 PM, said:

I am not sure either whether I want to be in slam after this bidding. But I doubt that this bidding, where responder jumps to RCKB and makes a further inquiry after he knows that a KC is missing should guide us.

Responder asked for the queen of trumps, presumably because he thought he might be facing something like AKJxxxx x AKx KQx. He didn't want to hear about minor-suit queens, but, like everybody else, they play that when giving a positive response to a queen-ask you also show side-suit kings.

Quote

So assuming 2 Club as your strong opening, how had you bid?

In a normal sequence, responder would show a club controls and later one KC. Sorry, this bidding does not scream for a club lead at all.

That's unlikely to work. East will definitely double 4♣ with ♣KQ or ♣K, and possibly also with ♣Q. West will lead a club anyway if he himself has KQ. So your slam will make only if East has ♣Q alone, East doesn't double 4♣, and West decides not to lead a club from his king.

Even if you didn't have that problem, I don't see how you expect to have an auction which tells opener to that there are twelve tricks, but doesn't tell the opponents what to lead.

If you want to reach 6♠ with a reasonable hope of it making, the best chance is for responder to take control with RKCB, but not bother wiith the queen ask.

[Codo]

Hi Andy,


1. 3 Spade showed solid spades, didn't it? So why ask for the queen?
Do you think that AKJTxxx is enough for 3 Spade? I don't think so, so I took his question as asking about kings only.

2.You think the majority or even a big part of your opponents double 4 Club on Qxxx or even Kxxx?

Mine will double 5 or 6 with the later holding and never with the first one. Why should they give away a possible two way finesse in case declarer has the missing high honour in that suit?
And my opponents do not double 4 Club with Kxxx at all. They will have more strength or more length.

3. If they did double 4 Club, we could have avoid the slam. If they did not, the chance for a club lead will be smaller then before.

4. If I showed a one suiter in spades and my partner makes a positive noise and shows an ace, I have enough confidence that I have 12 tricks. I can count 11 already opposite x,xxx,xxxx,Axxxx and I have high hopes that partner has more then this, else he should have bid differently.

[mike777]

rduran1216, on Sep 1 2009, 11:11 PM, said:

Dealer: ????? Vul: ???? Scoring: Unknown

♠ 8 ♥ KQ97 ♦ 5432 ♣ AJ63 ♠ AKQJ10742 ♥ 8 ♦ AK ♣ 98

I held south's hand tonight.

In the auction, it passed around to me and I opened to 2C.

So the auction goes

2C 2D
3S 4NT
5D 5H
6D 6S

Do you agree with our auction and do we want to be in 6S?

for starters....3s demands a cuebid...so 4c...not 4nt.....



2c?=2d
3s=4c
4d=4h
4nt now

[the hog]

rduran1216, on Sep 3 2009, 04:42 AM, said:

well I think everyone opens my hand 2C

Actually I wouldn't.

[gnasher]

Codo, on Sep 3 2009, 08:27 AM, said:

1. 3 Spade showed solid spades, didn't it? So why ask for the queen?
Do you think that AKJTxxx is enough for 3 Spade? I don't think so, so I took his question as asking about kings only.

I believe it varies. It's sometimes played as a self-supporting suit, rather than promising a solid one. If 3♠ did show a solid suit, I agree that the queen-ask was both redundant and unwise.

Quote

2.You think the majority or even a big part of your opponents double 4 Club on Qxxx or even Kxxx?

I think it's routine to double with Kxxx, and rare to double with Qxxx. If your opponents also need length to double 4♣, I agree that makes a difference.

I don't understand why anyone would need more than Kxxx to double 4♣. It's very likely to be the best lead for the defence, so there is a big upside. Nobody ever plays in 4♣ on this sort of auction, because their methods are geared to discussing controls, rather than length.

Quote

3. If they did double 4 Club, we could have avoid the slam. If they did not, the chance for a club lead will be smaller then before.

I thought we were trying to work out how to get to the slam without giving away the club weakness? Avoiding the slam is easy.

Quote

4. If I showed a one suiter in spades and my partner makes a positive noise and shows an ace, I have enough confidence that I have 12 tricks. I can count 11 already opposite x,xxx,xxxx,Axxxx and I have high hopes that partner has more then this, else he should have bid differently.

What do you want your partner to bid with that hand (x xxx xxxx Axxxx)?

[Codo]

gnasher, on Sep 4 2009, 04:39 PM, said:

Quote

2.You think the majority or even a big part of your opponents double 4 Club on Qxxx or even Kxxx?

I think it's routine to double with Kxxx, and rare to double with Qxxx. If your opponents also need length to double 4♣, I agree that makes a difference.

I don't understand why anyone would need more than Kxxx to double 4♣. It's very likely to be the best lead for the defence, so there is a big upside. Nobody ever plays in 4♣ on this sort of auction, because their methods are geared to discussing controls, rather than length.

I guess it is simply fear, that they will play 4 club XX +1. Of course this fear is without any merrit.

Quote

What do you want your partner to bid with that hand (x xxx xxxx Axxxx)?

Depends on style of course, in my favourte style I had a total different auction. But with the given tools, I want him to bid 4 Spade. IF one trick is all I need for a slam, opener can make another move.

But this is all muddy waters.

[bid_em_up]

Phil, on Sep 1 2009, 11:26 PM, said:

Further, RHO had a chance to double the redundant trump queen ask of 5♥.......

Given that it is the weak hand bidding 4N and also asking about the trump queen with 5H, I think its somewhat unfair to label asking about it as redundant......

[Phil]

bid_em_up, on Sep 4 2009, 11:21 AM, said:

Phil, on Sep 1 2009, 11:26 PM, said:

Further, RHO had a chance to double the redundant trump queen ask of 5♥.......

Given that it is the weak hand bidding 4N and also asking about the trump queen with 5H, I think its somewhat unfair to label asking about it as redundant......

What do you think 3♠ shows?