[Hilver]

Playing classic Precision, how would you open the hand below? 1♣  or would you just bid 1♥?

MP's
all white

♠ ---
♥ 10 9 8 4 2
♦ A Q 10
♣ A K Q 7 6 3

1. What are your arguments against opening 1♣?
2. What are your arguments in favour of opening 1♥?

Thx
Jan

[dake50]

5-3-6-0 is just too strong upside to not H-ask next after 1C. Do that even with 5-2-6-0 or 5-3-5-0.

[rbforster]

I'll take the 14th trick for sure! With 1 less diamond I might upgrade to 1♣, with one less heart or club I think a natural opening would be better.

[Echognome]

Definitely upgrade to a 1♣ opening as long as you take away one of the pips.

[Jlall]

1H, it's just too tough if you open 1C and get the nearly inevitable spade preemption.

[Phil]

If you aren't taking away my 6th club I would open it 2♣. If you are then 1♥.

[gwnn]

I hate hate hate upgrading to 1♣ because of distribution (even if it's a rare 6530)! Except with a one suiter.

[awm]

If you take away:

(1) A small club. I'll open 1♥, as showing both suits will be easier this way. This is also not as good a hand as it looks.

(2) A small heart. I'll open 1♣. The issue is that partner more frequently has to pass a 2♣ opening on an ok hand (whereas he could bid 1♠ or 1NT over 1♥). I find that upgrading "nice 15s" out of the 2♣ opening tends to be much more helpful than similar upgrades out of 1M. This also looks more like a "club one suiter" than a true "two suiter" with the 4-6 shape, and "losing" hearts in a competitive auction is less of a concern when I have four bad ones.

(3) A small diamond. I'll stick with 1♥. It's too easy to miss a nine-card heart fit (and a making game) by opening 2♣ on a 5-6 hand. The AQ-tight holding in diamonds is sort of dubious, and combined with the difficulty of showing both suits in a competitive auction deters me from 1♣.

[akhare]

1♥ for me, after removing either extra card in the minors.

BTW, assuming that 2♣ shows 6+ and that the extra card is the ♦T, are there any takers for the 2♣ opening (11-15)? If the spades are split fairly evenly among the remaining three hands, the opps might have a tough time chiming in with ♠ at the 2 level....

[the hog]

1H. Much more descriptive than 1C.

[effervesce]

Remove a diamond: 1st choice 1♣, 2nd choice 2♣ and 3rd choice 1♥. The hand has too much playing power and controls for opening 2♣ or 1♥.

Remove a club: 1♥

Remove a heart: 2♣ (especially if 2♣ promises 6). If we're worried about the opponents bidding spades, at least a 2♣ prevents them having a weak 2♠ overcall that would be available after a 1♥ opening.

[lowerline]

Isn't suit quality a factor? Same hcp, same distro, but with a better heart suit, I wouldn't hesitate to open 1♥. But the difference in suit quality between hearts and clubs is huge on this hand. IMHO the choice should be between 1♣ and 2♣... I think this hand is strong enough to open 1♣. I also believe that hearts can only be a good contract for us if partner has a good 4crd suit in support.

Steven

[the hog]

lowerline, on Sep 1 2009, 05:10 PM, said:

Isn't suit quality a factor? Same hcp, same distro, but with a better heart suit, I wouldn't hesitate to open 1♥. But the difference in suit quality between hearts and clubs is huge on this hand. IMHO the choice should be between 1♣ and 2♣... I think this hand is strong enough to open 1♣. I also believe that hearts can only be a good contract for us if partner has a good 4crd suit in support.

Steven

No, suit quality is totally irrelevant. If you have
xxxxx
A
x
AKQxxx

This is a 1S opening in Pecision, not 2C!
If you open 2C, you will never show a 5 card S suit, only 4.

As for H only being a good contract with 4? Nonsense.

♠ ---
♥ 10 9 8 4 2
♦ A Q 10
♣ A K Q 7 6 3

xxxx
Axx
Kxxx
xx

What contract do you want to be in?

[rbforster]

The_Hog, on Sep 1 2009, 05:35 AM, said:

No, suit quality is totally irrelevant. If you have
xxxxx
A
x
AKQxxx

This is a 1S opening in Pecision, not 2C!
If you open 2C, you will never show a 5 card S suit, only 4.

That depends on how you play 2♣ and I'm not sure there's a consensus. I know people who normally open their 5M-6m hands in the minor (1♦ or 2♣) even without downgrading a 5 small suit to be treated as a 4 card one. Others prefer to open 1M on these.

At any rate, with the hand you gave having only 4 losers I'm opening that 1♣ rather than 1♠ or 2♣, but perhaps others would not.

[Hilver]

Sorry, remove a small club.

Thanks for your replies

Jan

[the hog]

Rob F, on Sep 1 2009, 08:24 PM, said:

That depends on how you play 2♣ and I'm not sure there's a consensus. I know people who normally open their 5M-6m hands in the minor (1♦ or 2♣) even without downgrading a 5 small suit to be treated as a 4 card one. Others prefer to open 1M on these.
snipped

If they do this, then they are playing some home grown club. The op was about Precision, not a do it yourself version.

[Phil]

The_Hog, on Sep 1 2009, 07:16 PM, said:

Rob F, on Sep 1 2009, 08:24 PM, said:

That depends on how you play 2♣ and I'm not sure there's a consensus.  I know people who normally open their 5M-6m hands in the minor (1♦ or 2♣) even without downgrading a 5 small suit to be treated as a 4 card one.  Others prefer to open 1M on these. 
snipped

If they do this, then they are playing some home grown club. The op was about Precision, not a do it yourself version.

Like Meckwell or Super Precision.

[Jlall]

Jlall, on Aug 31 2009, 06:23 PM, said:

1H, it's just too tough if you open 1C and get the nearly inevitable spade preemption.

lol I thought it was 0535 when I posted this FWIW. I saw 053 so assumed it was 5!

[lowerline]

The_Hog, on Sep 1 2009, 05:35 AM, said:

lowerline, on Sep 1 2009, 05:10 PM, said:

Isn't suit quality a factor? Same hcp, same distro, but with a better heart suit, I wouldn't hesitate to open 1♥. But the difference in suit quality between hearts and clubs is huge on this hand. IMHO the choice should be between 1♣ and 2♣... I think this hand is strong enough to open 1♣. I also believe that hearts can only be a good contract for us if partner has a good 4crd suit in support.

Steven

No, suit quality is totally irrelevant. If you have
xxxxx
A
x
AKQxxx

This is a 1S opening in Pecision, not 2C!
If you open 2C, you will never show a 5 card S suit, only 4.

As for H only being a good contract with 4? Nonsense.

♠ ---
♥ 10 9 8 4 2
♦ A Q 10
♣ A K Q 7 6 3

xxxx
Axx
Kxxx
xx

What contract do you want to be in?

Every time when you are in a situation where there are multiple acceptable bids, suit quality should be factor in making your choice. This is just a matter of hand evaluation. I don't see why this shouldn't be so in Precision.

Opening 1♥ on the example hand will make sure you won't miss 4♥, but you can miss 6♣. I would bid the example hand as a 6-4. Though I admit the situation is different if you play a relay system that allows you to show exact distribution and position of honours.

Opposite your example responding hand, hearts and clubs will have to break (assuming the opponents will force you in spades). If they do, 5♣ will win as well...

Steven

[P_Marlowe]

Not playing precision - but for 1H speaks, that you have
a min. with regards to HCP.
So if you open 1H followed by a jump to 3C, which as far as
I recall showes 5-5 with a max., you will have finished the
description of your hand in two bids.

What more do you want?

With kind regards
Marlowe