very bad agreement
#1
Posted 2009-August-18, 16:11
p-?
KJTx
Tx
AKxx
T9x
3♣ was natural non forcing denying a spade fit. It's all red at imps. You can't bid 3♠ since that would ask for a spade stop (hence the title).
George Carlin
#2
Posted 2009-August-18, 16:17
3NT might work.
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
#3
Posted 2009-August-18, 16:17
#4
Posted 2009-August-18, 16:23
Pard isn't barred. If pard has some shape and 6 hearts, I would expect a 4♥ call.
Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
#7
Posted 2009-August-18, 21:54
If 3S asks for a spade stopper, then 3NT shows a spade stopper. You obviously won't bid 3NT missing both. So, 3NT shows a spade stopper but does not show a club stopper.
The question, then, is how to distinguish hands with spades and clubs stopped from hands with just spades stopped.
That solution, IMO, is a matter of there being no way to show both, so you have to pick one. 3NT either shows both or just shows spades.
Then, you have to decide which comes up more often. Intuitively, I think the "I have spades but not clubs" comes up more often than "I have both."
But, then you have to decide whether 3NT as a call wins more often when you have both (passing being a good bet) or when you have just spades stopped (3NT gets pulled a lot).
In the end, I cannot work this out. So, I bid 3NT because I want to.
-P.J. Painter.
#8
Posted 2009-August-19, 01:25
If you hold both stoppers you bid 3 NT!!
3 NT will end the bidding as long as partner has no real one or two suiter. He won't take us out because of 6 Hearts and a singelton club.
I go for 3 NT. The chance that partner has two spades is bigger then the chance that he has just one.
Roland
Sanity Check: Failure (Fluffy)
More system is not the answer...
#9
Posted 2009-August-19, 02:27
3NT could be ridiculous, even if 4♥ is suffering a spade ruff. Partner isn't going to remove 3NT with xx AKQxxx Qxxx x or x KQJxxx Qxxx Ax
#10
Posted 2009-August-19, 02:51
How often does the 3♣ bid (NF!) come from AKQJxx(...) ?
Almost never
In all other cases 3NT has chances, either with a stopper from my p or a blockage.
#11
Posted 2009-August-19, 03:25
gnasher, on Aug 19 2009, 11:27 AM, said:
Isn't this more than a mere intuition but actually standard with no known fit, and searching for NT? When opps have bid one suit, que-bidding ask for a stopper, but with two suits, you bid the one that you stop asking for a stopper in the other.
#12
Posted 2009-August-19, 08:28
the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
George Bernard Shaw
#13
Posted 2009-August-19, 08:44
Second choice is 4♥. 3NT is gambling on running hearts & a club stopper & 4 losers in spades (incl ruff(s)), too narrow a target if partner can't bid it over 3♠.
#14
Posted 2009-August-19, 11:33
#15
Posted 2009-August-19, 12:01
#16
Posted 2009-August-19, 12:10
helene_t, on Aug 19 2009, 01:01 PM, said:
this works if you have a spade stopper. the positional concerns if you bid 3NT without a spade stopper are still there. Or do you just forget about NT unless you have spades stopped? Hey, that works.
#17
Posted 2009-August-19, 12:37
Partner is never bidding 3N.
Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
#19
Posted 2009-August-19, 14:39
Phil, on Aug 19 2009, 08:37 PM, said:
Sad. It's known to be a winning contract from time to time.
Maybe if I give him an intensive course in puling up the 3NT-card he will learn how to do it?! It is not that hard, I think...
#20
Posted 2009-August-20, 01:56
MFA, on Aug 20 2009, 05:39 AM, said:
Phil, on Aug 19 2009, 08:37 PM, said:
Sad. It's known to be a winning contract from time to time.
Maybe if I give him an intensive course in puling up the 3NT-card he will learn how to do it?! It is not that hard, I think...
But as the OP stated, you have a CLEAR agreement:
3 Spade asks for a spade stopper. You should change this after this hand. But for this hand, you should not change the methods during the bidding.
Bidding 3 Spade here will not help at all.
Roland
Sanity Check: Failure (Fluffy)
More system is not the answer...

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