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Jump in 4th suit Is it also forcing?

#1 User is offline   TimG 

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Posted 2009-August-25, 08:21

You hold ♠A5 ♥AJT74 ♦AK854 ♣6. Partner opens 1♣, you respond 1♥ and partner rebids 1♠.

What is your next bid?
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#2 User is online   jillybean 

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Posted 2009-August-25, 08:26

2♦ wtp, I'll bid 3 next time.
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#3 User is offline   mich-b 

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Posted 2009-August-25, 08:26

3♦ - 5-5 GF.

Some people play direct 3♦ as invitational, and bid 2♦4sf and 3♦ on the next round to show a GF 5-5. We prefer to use that sequence as "5th suit forcing = genral force" with a hand like :

Qxx
AKJxx
xxx
Kx

1♣-1♥
1♠-2♦
3♣-3♦
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#4 User is offline   jmcw 

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Posted 2009-August-25, 08:27

Jump in the 4th suit shows an invitation distributional hand. 4th suit following with a rebid of that suit shows a GF. Just bid 2♦ here.
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#5 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2009-August-25, 09:22

I play 3♦ here as 5-5 GF. Then again, I play a non-standard convention which applies here; the xyz-convention.

2♣ is a puppet to 2♦; to play or initiating an invite.
2NT is a puppet to 3♣; to play or slammish with 4♥5+♣.
All jumps are natural GFs, showing 5-5 or a very good suit (rebid).
2♦ is a conventional GF for all hands not fitting 2NT or a jump (3-level or to game).
Kind regards,
Harald
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#6 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2009-August-25, 09:24

skaeran, on Aug 25 2009, 10:22 AM, said:

I play 3♦ here as 5-5 GF. Then again, I play a non-standard convention which applies here; the xyz-convention.

2♣ is a puppet to 2♦; to play or initiating an invite.
2NT is a puppet to 3♣; to play or slammish with 4♥5+♣.
All jumps are natural GFs, showing 5-5 or a very good suit (rebid).
2♦ is a conventional GF for all hands not fitting 2NT or a jump (3-level or to game).

Ditto.
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#7 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2009-August-25, 09:34

TimG, on Aug 25 2009, 09:21 AM, said:

You hold ♠A5 ♥AJT74 ♦AK854 ♣6. Partner opens 1♣, you respond 1♥ and partner rebids 1♠.

What is your next bid?

2♦....WTP?
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#8 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2009-August-25, 09:44

2D (GF)...then 3D to describe. The 5-5 Jumps are workable, unless you want a bid to describe XX QXXX KQJXXX X or the like. Some are content to just rebid 1NT with that, or to respond 1D the first time.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#9 User is offline   TimG 

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Posted 2009-August-25, 09:52

jmcw, on Aug 25 2009, 09:27 AM, said:

Jump in the 4th suit shows an invitation distributional hand. 4th suit following with a rebid of that suit shows a GF. Just bid 2♦ here.

I thought this was the normal approach to 4th suit auctions.

This was Q1 in last week's Tannah Hirsch (Goren Bridge) Weekly Bridge Quiz that I happened to read while in a waiting room. The answer given:

Two diamonds would be fourth-suit forcing, not necessarily promising a suit, and might cost a round of bidding. A jump to three diamonds describes your hand much better.

With a pickup partner who agreed to play a generic 2/1 or SAYC, I would have assumed a jump in the fourth suit would be invitational. Whether that is best in theory is a different matter, I'm just talking about what I would guess to be standard.
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#10 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2009-August-25, 11:05

IT seems fine to jump to 3d playing xyz to show this hand type.

That means you can play 2d(artificial game force) and then 3d to show 5-4.

Playing with a pickup partner if she jumps to 3d I am never going to risk passing.
1c=1h=1s=3d

Playing walsh style and without xyz, 1c=1h=1s=3d is an auction one needs to discuss, is it strong, invite or weak with long d?
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#11 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2009-August-25, 12:18

Even not playing XYZ I thought 3♦ GF was the most comon tratment, but seems I am disapointed again :(
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#12 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2009-August-25, 12:59

In BWS 3♦ is a splinter if 2♦ would be game-forcing, but natural and game-foricng if 2♦ would be a one-round force. That's where democracy gets you.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#13 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2009-August-25, 13:46

I know about people playing 2♦ (FSF) as GF who use 3♦ as 55 inv, 55 GF and splinter. 55 GF is the default meaning without discussion here.
Kind regards,
Harald
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#14 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2009-August-25, 14:24

I have no idea what is standard but we play 5/5 GF.

Further invitational hands have to muddle through the best that they can as bidding fourth suit and rebidding it is not natural for us.
Wayne Burrows

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#15 User is offline   ONEferBRID 

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Posted 2009-August-25, 15:57

skaeran, on Aug 25 2009, 02:46 PM, said:

I know about people playing 2♦ (FSF) as GF who use 3♦ as 55 inv, 55 GF and splinter. 55 GF is the default meaning without discussion here.

Ditto.

But, I'm glad you mentioned Splinter first ( so you can take the heat instead of me).
2D! = a forcing bid.
3D-jump! = a jump over a forcing bid which is the general definition of a splinter (for the last bid suit--Sp in this case ).

- - Don - -
Don Stenmark ( TWOferBRIDGE )
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#16 User is offline   rd6789 

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Posted 2009-August-26, 05:43

I would play 3D = splinter, say Axxx/AKxxx/x/Kxx - so 2D here
richard
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#17 User is offline   ochinko 

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Posted 2009-August-26, 08:03

rd6789, on Aug 26 2009, 02:43 PM, said:

I would play 3D = splinter, say Axxx/AKxxx/x/Kxx - so 2D here

Me too. For the same reasons I can't bid 4NT as natural and invitational as it would look like a RKCB in ♠.
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