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precision: 1D-1M/2NT

#1 User is offline   bill1157 

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Posted 2009-August-22, 07:30

what does this sequence show in precision? And if it shows long diamonds, what does 1♦-1M-2♦ show? (and what about 1♦-1M/3♣?)

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#2 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2009-August-22, 09:31

Precision Today (Berkowitz and Manley): a good diamond suit and a good NT hand. Example, after a 1♥ response:


Godfrey's Stairway to the Stars (Rosenkranz and Alder): hand worth a 3♦ rebid, but fewer than 3♥. 3♦ is "natural, but with three card heart support". Okay, Romex Forcing Club isn't precisely Precision, but it's close. :)

RFC would bid the example hand the same way as Berkowitz and Manley suggest.

Rigal's Precision in the 90s may have something different, but I can't find my copy right now.
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#3 User is offline   rd6789 

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Posted 2009-August-23, 10:12

I play this as showing good 4 card support of partners major and 5 good diamonds or good 3 card support of partner;s major and 6 good diamonds. 3C from partner asks which hand I have, 3D=3/6 3M=4/5
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#4 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2009-August-23, 18:27

5/4 or 4/5 in the minors with 3 card support for partner, 14-15 HCP.
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#5 User is offline   bill1157 

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Posted 2009-August-23, 18:42

The_Hog, on Aug 23 2009, 07:27 PM, said:

5/4 or 4/5 in the minors with 3 card support for partner, 14-15 HCP.

you are talking about 1♦-1M/2N?
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#6 User is offline   Double ! 

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Posted 2009-August-23, 19:52

Question is unclear. If mean the opps pass throughout and the bidding goes 1D -p- 1M-p - 2NT: If my memory serves me well (always a risky assumption), in the original version of Precision, the 2NT rebid by 1D opener over 1M by responder showed a max 1D opener with a solid diamond suit. Perhaps things have changed. A rebid of 2D simply showed an opener with 5, probably 6 diamonds, not solid, and no 4-card support for responder, and not appropriate for a 1NT rebid.
1D - 1M - 3C showed a good 5-5, 14-15 hcp.
Again, I strongly suspect that many have their own revisions and interpretations of these sequences.

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#7 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2009-August-23, 19:52

bill1157, on Aug 24 2009, 07:42 AM, said:

The_Hog, on Aug 23 2009, 07:27 PM, said:

5/4 or 4/5 in the minors with 3 card support for partner, 14-15 HCP.

you are talking about 1♦-1M/2N?

Yes.
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#8 User is offline   lowerline 

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Posted 2009-August-24, 03:38

The following is not uncommon:

2♦ = natural 5+crd (if 6crd then minimum or bad suit)
2NT = 6crd diamonds max, not 3crd M support
3♣ = 55m max
3♦ = 6crd diamonds max + 3crd M support

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#9 User is offline   maggieb 

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Posted 2009-August-24, 23:29

For

1♦-1M
2NT

I like that this shows a maximum with exactly 3-card support for the major and 6♦.

Rebidding 3♦ just shows a max with long diamonds (usually 7), 3♣ is a maximum 5-5. Most hands with 6♦ should just rebid 2♦.
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#10 User is offline   agusaris 

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Posted 2009-August-25, 09:24

Another suggestion. The rebid of 2NT shows four card suport for responders major and a singleton/void in either clubs or the other major. Responder bids 3 clubs and opener rebids 3 diamonds with short clubs and three of the major when short in the other major.
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#11 User is offline   A2003 

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Posted 2009-August-25, 16:33

1♦-1M - 2NT: Exactly three card Major, long and strong diamonds, at least game invitational values.
Opener has a hand that is worth 3♦, but with major support.
This bid can also be made with 3=4=6=0 shape for responder 1♠ bid.

1D-1H, 2NT- 3C: Something in clubs; the initial meaning is a stopper, looking
for 3NT, but if responder then goes back to 4H he shows a slam try,
too strong to just sign off in 4H. Continuations natural.
1D-1H, 2NT- 3D: Prefers diamonds to hearts for the partial, rejects game.
1D-1H, 2NT- 3H: A fifth heart (usually), but not enough to bid game. Opener is
expected to pass. If you are tempted to keep bidding, remember
that responder can have a less count.
1D-1H, 2NT- 3S: Something in spades; slam try if responder goes back to 4H
over 3NT.
1D-1H, 2NT- 3NT: To play. Responder can have KQxx/QJxx/x/KT9x.
1D-1H, 2NT- 4C: Self-splinter for hearts. Responder has 5+ hearts and is
slamming.
1D-1H, 2NT- 4D: Prefers diamonds, forcing. Probably only four hearts.
1D-1H, 2NT- 4H: Signoff. Not interested in slam.
1D-1H, 2NT- 4S: RKC for hearts.
1D-1H, 2NT- 4NT: Does not exist. Could be a self-splinter for hearts, showing
spade shortness, but probably better to make a lower forcing bid with that hand. Also, if you are short in spades, the opponents would probably have bid something by now.
==============================================
1♦-1M - 2♦: Standard, almost always a six-card suit.
But would raise to 2♥ with three-card support more freely than some, so 2D rebid tends to deny support. It always denies four spades, of course.
Bid 2♦ instead of the raise only with a minimum (less likely to miss a game).
Also, with 6-4 in the minors, you should rebid 2♦ instead of 2♣ if you are minimum. Rebidding 2♣ with that shape should be done only if you are going to accept an invitation.
========================================================
1♦-1M - 3♣: Natural, at least 6-5 minors, maximum opening that does not qualify for a 1♣ opening. Not forcing.
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#12 User is offline   Tola18 

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Posted 2009-September-01, 12:43

When playing Strong Club I tried to play it as a sort of reversed Jacoby. Thrue, it was my own invention, but later they told me this is a common approach among experts.

Thus: 4-fit, about maximum in points, usually semibalanced hand. This hand IS quite common!
3M would be too 4-fit, good hand - but unbalanced hand. Thus in part preemptive as there is risk for opps to contest.

Further bidding natural: With weak hand resp bids 3M and we play there. With modest hand resp bids 4M and we hopefully make it. If partner bids anything else it is a natural slam-searcher.

Problem? My last SC-partner, a interm+, when having weak hand did usually passed that 2NT. Thus forcing me to play difficult 2NT instead of easy 3M.... GRRR



Interesting to see there are also other good solutions. I shall perhaps rethink some. :)

The main point here is of course, 1D-1M, 2NT doesnt have any natural meaning in strong-club systems, as this cant be the usual NT-ladder. Thus you can use this empty bid for something else and useful.
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#13 User is offline   jmc 

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Posted 2009-September-01, 13:01

Awhile back I asked a similar question and Joshs suggested using 2NT over 1d-1s to show either 3-card s support and 6+d or 4-card S support and a stiff somewhere. Look for his response in this thread.

http://forums.bridge...topic=16395&hl=

I have been playing this and we have gotten some very nice results from it.

jmc
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#14 User is offline   mtvesuvius 

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Posted 2009-September-01, 16:32

I play it showing 6♦, Max w/3 card support, I think this is somewhat common
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