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Assign the blame (2)
#1
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Posted 2009-August-21, 19:45
Michael Sun
#2
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Posted 2009-August-21, 20:04
Whoever decided PASS was forcing on this sort of auction. Or if no one then east for doubling without sufficient tricks.
Wayne Burrows
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dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
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I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
#3
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Posted 2009-August-21, 20:35
A Mazel Tov to East who not only managed to bid the same values twice (with the X), but also managed to hang partner who should've been the one to make the final decision on this auction. Responder showed his/her hand, invited game, and made opener the captain all in one bid. (i.e. responder asked his/her partner a question.) Then responder didn't respect the captain's decision. Opener's pass is not in any way forcing. Opener made the decision for the partnership and East over-rode the decision.
I say force East to walk the plank!
DHL
I say force East to walk the plank!
DHL
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#4
- Brain Farts and Actual Farts Increasing with Age
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Posted 2009-August-21, 20:42
East does have one defensive trick. If opener has only four more, this double should work.
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#5
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Posted 2009-August-21, 20:49
I'm guessing East thought pass was forcing, but I needn't see why this is the case.
I know players that think a limit raise creates a FP when we are vulnerable, but I've never seen the logic in that. Playing this method you get to choose between -730 and -500 probably.
I'm not enamored with the opening bid but it had little to do with the result.
I know players that think a limit raise creates a FP when we are vulnerable, but I've never seen the logic in that. Playing this method you get to choose between -730 and -500 probably.
I'm not enamored with the opening bid but it had little to do with the result.
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#6
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Posted 2009-August-21, 21:22
West does not have an opening bid. That has to contribute to the problem. (For ZAR followers, it is 24 ZARs before removing 1 pt for Jx, making it not close to an opener even by his aggressive standards). Even I would not open West hand, and I am notorious for opening light.
But as others have noted, East has described his hand with the limit raise (both hcp, support, etc). His partner is the boss now. The only reasons he might double 3@S are:
1) He has some totally unpredictable surprize defense values that could not be expected on this auction (think two spade tricks).
2) HE thinks pass was forcing.
Well, pass clearly should not be forcing. So 2 is out, and he does not have any surprize tricks. So, the blame goes on EAST, but I will hold back like 10% for WEST's foolish opening bid. Making it 90-10%. I make it 100% EAST only if EW playing precision (or similar) and have agreements to open all 11 hcp hands.
But as others have noted, East has described his hand with the limit raise (both hcp, support, etc). His partner is the boss now. The only reasons he might double 3@S are:
1) He has some totally unpredictable surprize defense values that could not be expected on this auction (think two spade tricks).
2) HE thinks pass was forcing.
Well, pass clearly should not be forcing. So 2 is out, and he does not have any surprize tricks. So, the blame goes on EAST, but I will hold back like 10% for WEST's foolish opening bid. Making it 90-10%. I make it 100% EAST only if EW playing precision (or similar) and have agreements to open all 11 hcp hands.
--Ben--
#7
- Csaba the Hutt
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Posted 2009-August-22, 01:59
east totally lost the ball. 
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
George Carlin
George Carlin
#8
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Posted 2009-August-22, 05:07
You've all already said it, East. In this case, I don't think it matters that opener's hand is not really a 1-level opener, responder broke discipline by the Dbl.
#9
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Posted 2009-August-22, 07:51
pass can't be forcing as we've only shown values for the 3 level.
I would say the X showed a hand with good defensive potential, not much in hearts and probably short spades - say xx/xxxx/Axxx/AKx - but this isn't a bid I woudl make at teams very often!
So east's bid is nuts with the hand he/she had.
West has a tough choice - I can't say I blame the pass - AH and KD look good and QC
I would say the X showed a hand with good defensive potential, not much in hearts and probably short spades - say xx/xxxx/Axxx/AKx - but this isn't a bid I woudl make at teams very often!
So east's bid is nuts with the hand he/she had.
West has a tough choice - I can't say I blame the pass - AH and KD look good and QC
richard
#10
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Posted 2009-August-22, 08:33
West for opening this 10+1 count ( treating Sp as x x ) , 8 loser hand in 1st seat;
but more blame to East for doubling with his 8 loser limit raise hand, whereby that Sp Q doubleton is next to worthless.
but more blame to East for doubling with his 8 loser limit raise hand, whereby that Sp Q doubleton is next to worthless.
Don Stenmark ( TWOferBRIDGE )
#11
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Posted 2009-August-22, 10:34
cnszsun, on Aug 21 2009, 08:45 PM, said:
Scoring: IMP
1♥-ps-3♦*-3♠
ps-ps-dbl-AP
3♦=bergen raise
3♠ make
1♥-ps-3♦*-3♠
ps-ps-dbl-AP
3♦=bergen raise
3♠ make
Bad judgment by East
"Tell me of your home world, Usul"
the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
George Bernard Shaw
the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
George Bernard Shaw
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1♥-ps-3♦*-3♠
ps-ps-dbl-AP
3♦=bergen raise
3♠ make