[jillybean]

I'm about to make a jump bid in the auction, what is the correct way to use the Stop card?

[jnichols]

Depends on where you are.

In the ACBL (and perhaps other places as well)
put out the STOP card
put out your bid
take back the STOP card
opponent waits 10 seconds after your bid to take action

Some other places (don't have a list)
put out the STOP Card
put out your bid
wait 10 seconds, then take back the STOP card

There may be places where the regulations are different from both of the above examples -- Tell us a location and we can probably find someone with the information.

[jillybean]

ACBL, thanks.
If LHO does not wait 10seconds then partner can break tempo and I wont be restricted?

[jnichols]

Quote

If LHO does not wait 10seconds then partner can break tempo and I wont be restricted?

I can't quote a Law or regulation, but my theory is that the 10-second pause is for the table, so if you make a skip bid and LHO doesn't pause then yes, your partner gets the extra think time without restricting you.

Perhaps someone can give us a specific Law or Regulation.

[blackshoe]

I'm sure there isn't a specific law. I don't think there's a specific regulation, though that depends on the jurisdiction. I'm pretty sure there isn't in the ACBL.

If you make a skip bid, your LHO bids instantly, and your partner takes no more than about 10-12 seconds to choose his call, I would rule there was no BIT by your partner. There was, of course, a BIT by your LHO, and that will constrain his partner.

[jillybean]

blackshoe, on Aug 19 2009, 09:12 AM, said:

I'm sure there isn't a specific law. I don't think there's a specific regulation, though that depends on the jurisdiction. I'm pretty sure there isn't in the ACBL.

If you make a skip bid, your LHO bids instantly, and your partner takes no more than about 10-12 seconds to choose his call, I would rule there was no BIT by your partner. There was, of course, a BIT by your LHO, and that will constrain his partner.

I like that

Funny stop card incident, I used the stop card, made my bid, LHO looks at the bid, sits back and says, "ok I have to wait the mandatory 10 seconds now".

[LH2650]

jillybean, on Aug 19 2009, 10:49 AM, said:

If LHO does not wait 10seconds then partner can break tempo and I wont be restricted?

Partner's BIT is still a BIT. I don't like the term "restricted" - you should always do what you think you would have done without partner's hesitation. However, by failing to wait the required 10 seconds, your opponent has committed an irregularity by violating a regulation authorized under Law 80. If the Director determines that your side was damaged (by denying partner time to think), he has the authority to assign an adjusted score under Law 12.

[jillybean]

I disagree. A break in tempo is required after a jump as opposed to an illegal BIT where I am restricted in my choice of bids – “may not choose from logical alternative actions one that could demonstrably be suggested over another by the by the extraneous information’

I assume the reason LHO is required to wait 10seconds is to allow my partner to make a bid in tempo wether or not he has had to think 10seconds before making the bid.

I see this turns out to be in the wrong forum.

[Double !]

As a precaution, I put the STOP card on the table first, then my bid, and I leave the stop card on the table for about 10 seconds before I remove it.
lol. I have absolutely no idea what this accomplishes other than ensuring that about 10 seconds have passed before my lho slams the red X card on the table.

DHL

[jillybean]

Double !, on Aug 19 2009, 10:09 AM, said:

As a precaution, I put the STOP card on the table first, then my bid, and I leave the stop card on the table for about 10 seconds before I remove it. 
lol.  I have absolutely no idea what this accomplishes other than ensuring that about 10 seconds have passed before my lho slams the red X card on the table.

DHL

It alerts my partner to the fact that I'm about to overbid my hand.

[jillybean]

jnichols, on Aug 19 2009, 09:00 AM, said:

Quote

If LHO does not wait 10seconds then partner can break tempo and I wont be restricted?

I can't quote a Law or regulation, but my theory is that the 10-second pause is for the table, so if you make a skip bid and LHO doesn't pause then yes, your partner gets the extra think time without restricting you.

Perhaps someone can give us a specific Law or Regulation.

delete

[jnichols]

My way of thinking: The mandatory 10-second pause is there to give everyone at the table a chance to absorb the meaning of the skip bid and adjust their plans for the auction. (Everyone excpet the skip bidder of course) So if LHO doesn't pause then partner of the skip bidder should be allowed the extra time.

[Mbodell]

An important other information in the ACBL is that you don't have to use the stop card, but you do have to be consistent (if you ever use the stop card, you always have to use it). And regardless of what you do with the stop card your LHO must pause 10 seconds and appear to think every time you make a skip bid. So if your RHO makes a skip bid and doesn't use a stop card you still should count to 10 (silently!) before making your call.

IME people in general are very bad about pausing regardless of the use of the stop card.

[hrothgar]

Around here, if you have a maximum you use the stop card...

[blackshoe]

LH2650, on Aug 19 2009, 12:30 PM, said:

Partner's BIT is still a BIT.

This is easy enough. Just make your skip bid, and if LHO calls in less than ten seconds, call the director. Partner will have plenty of time to think about what to do.

Quote

you should always do what you think you would have done without partner's hesitation.

Not so. When you have UI you must carefully avoid taking advantage of it — and making the call you think you would have made without the UI doesn't always do that.

[blackshoe]

jillybean, on Aug 19 2009, 12:44 PM, said:

I assume the reason LHO is required to wait 10seconds is to allow my partner to make a bid in tempo wether or not he has had to think 10 seconds before making the bid.

That may be part of it, but the primary reason is to avoid problems from the opponents' tempo breaks. Don't forget that a fast (for the situation and player concerned) call is just as much a BIT as a slow one.

Quote

I see this turns out to be in the wrong forum.

Yes. I don't have moderator powers in here or I'd have moved it already.

[paulg]

In Scotland the use of the Stop card is mandatory. In England and Wales I thought it was mandatory, as does everyone, but checking I see that the Orange Book says that it 'should' be used. However everyone uses it and the regulations are clear that the next hand must pause for ~10 seconds whatever.

In the ACBL, I'm sure it is the optional element of using the card that has led to the abuse where people use the Stop card to wake partner up, or at least the widespread belief that this is what people are doing.

As Adam Wildavsky has written, the ACBL's policy has created this position and he advocated moving to the compulsory use of the Stop card.

Paul

[gwnn]

hrothgar, on Aug 19 2009, 11:25 PM, said:

Around here, if you have a maximum you use the stop card...

That's certainly a better method than the standard way, stop card=minimum, stop bidding.

[gnasher]

blackshoe, on Aug 19 2009, 10:25 PM, said:

LH2650, on Aug 19 2009, 12:30 PM, said:

Partner's BIT is still a BIT.

This is easy enough. Just make your skip bid, and if LHO calls in less than ten seconds, call the director. Partner will have plenty of time to think about what to do.

Another possibility is to agree with your partner that if the opponent doesn't pause after the stop warning, your partner will always pause instead. You may need to explain to the opponents that this is what you do, so as to avoid accidentally misleading them.

This procedure may also encourage them to follow the rules in future.

[helene_t]

Sometimes people will play the stop card and then start thinking about which jump bid to do. It's important to think before playing the stop card so that at least it isn't obvious that the alternative you had in mind was also a jump bid.

However, if you play the stop card and then change your mind to some non-jump bid (or even a pass or a double), you can still do that, but of course create UI for partner.