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get in? (2) North's delayed game raise

#1 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2009-August-18, 16:48

Scoring: MP

PASS (3♠) Dbl (PASS)
4♥ (PASS) PASS (4♠)
?

Wayne Burrows

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#2 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2009-August-18, 16:52

yeah 5 diamonds now.
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#3 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2009-August-18, 19:29

Pass, Nth has no idea what he is doing and has made the last guess on the hand.
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#4 User is offline   655321 

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Posted 2009-August-18, 20:48

5♦.

I would have bid over 4♠ last round, so not sure why I should sell out just because North made a 'cost-free' pass over the double. Happy to get both my suits in.

(OK, just noticed we are R/W at MP. Pass is more attractive than I first thought, but I think I still bid 5♦.)
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#5 User is offline   andy_h 

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Posted 2009-August-19, 06:28

5♦ now o
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#6 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2009-August-19, 07:34

Yeah 5♦.
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#7 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2009-August-19, 08:22

X to warn partner
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#8 User is offline   se12sam 

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Posted 2009-August-19, 08:47

Is 5♦ being bid as a potential sacrifice or because we hope to make?

I would presume the odds are against us making 11 tricks in either ♦ or ♥. Partner needs to produce at least 3 of these: ♠ singleton; ♦ A; ♥AKxx or ♥KQJx; ♣A.

If partner has other ♣ honors (not ♣A), the ♣ values are wasted in offence but not in defence. Defending should produce a plus score more often than not; and I will settle for Dbl. If partner has a hand suitable for offense, he could make the bid of 5♥ over my double.
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#9 User is offline   effervesce 

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Posted 2009-August-19, 09:23

Pass, which should be forcing as the opps were willing to play in only 3♠. I'm happy if partner bids on, or Xs.
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#10 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2009-August-19, 10:08

effervesce, on Aug 19 2009, 05:23 PM, said:

Pass, which should be forcing as the opps were willing to play in only 3♠. I'm happy if partner bids on, or Xs.

North never had the option of playing in 3♠, your partner doubled it....
North had the option of bidding 4♠ before or after you made a call, and, for some reason, chose the latter.

If this was because his next bid depended upon yours, or just to confuse matters, you don't know. And there's no logical reason why a forcing pass should apply for your side based upon North bidding 4♠ the previous round or now. It would/could be different if he had passed 3♠ in a position where that might become the final contract.
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#11 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2009-August-19, 13:40

effervesce, on Aug 20 2009, 03:23 AM, said:

Pass, which should be forcing as the opps were willing to play in only 3♠. I'm happy if partner bids on, or Xs.

The opponents were willing to play in 3♠ Doubled which is quite a different thing than being willing to play in 3♠.
Wayne Burrows

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dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

#12 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2009-August-19, 13:41

se12sam, on Aug 20 2009, 02:47 AM, said:

Is 5♦ being bid as a potential sacrifice or because we hope to make?

I would presume the odds are against us making 11 tricks in either ♦ or ♥. Partner needs to produce at least 3 of these: ♠ singleton; ♦ A; ♥AKxx or ♥KQJx; ♣A.

If partner has other ♣ honors (not ♣A), the ♣ values are wasted in offence but not in defence. Defending should produce a plus score more often than not; and I will settle for Dbl. If partner has a hand suitable for offense, he could make the bid of 5♥ over my double.

Partner did force to the four-level when we were a PASSed hand. The question really is if partner was willing to play the four-level opposite an average PASSed hand do we have sufficient additional offense to play the five-level ?
Wayne Burrows

I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

#13 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2009-August-20, 01:36

I love this shape, 5 ♦.
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#14 User is offline   rd6789 

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Posted 2009-August-20, 05:25

At teams I think 5D is clear - could be a game both ways.

At pairs more tricky but I do have an offensive hand so 5D probably again -
pass can't be forcing so I have to decide myself
richard
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#15 User is offline   effervesce 

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Posted 2009-August-20, 05:43

Cascade, on Aug 19 2009, 02:40 PM, said:

effervesce, on Aug 20 2009, 03:23 AM, said:

Pass, which should be forcing as the opps were willing to play in only 3♠. I'm happy if partner bids on, or Xs.

The opponents were willing to play in 3♠ Doubled which is quite a different thing than being willing to play in 3♠.

From what I've seen I think most times the opponents would bid 4♠ to make on hands that they would likely make 4♠ the first round as to give us less time to find a profitable sac or makable game ourselves, or to nail us if we bid wrongly on the 5 level.

Since everyone here seems to agree that pass is non-forcing however, then I still pass - your hand is missing too many aces to make the 5 lvl likely to make, especially with the fact that the heart honors the opps have are likely to be over partner's honors. The scoring also makes a vulnerable game not as attractive at MPs.
Ming

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#16 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2009-August-20, 06:22

Scoring: MP

Wayne Burrows

I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
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