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A third overtrick

#1 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2009-August-17, 16:29

Scoring: Matchpoints

1NT-2(1)
2NT(2)-3NT
(1) Range ask
(2) Minimum

West leads 4 and RHO throws a club, so you nod approvingly at partner's bidding. You win the jack in hand and lead Q. LHO discards, so you play low. RHO wins and returns a club.

Now what?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#2 User is offline   louisg 

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Posted 2009-August-17, 17:39

Run the hearts. In the 7 card ending RHO must hold 3 clubs, so will be forced to come down to no more than 2 cards in one of the pointed suits. If you think he has held onto 3 spades, cash two rounds of diamonds ending in hand and then two rounds of clubs for the double squeeze. Conversely, if you think RHO is holding diamonds, cash two rounds of spades ending in hand followed by two rounds of clubs.

In theory, top level opponents may discard in a way that makes the position difficult to read, but in practice you will almost always know which suit RHO has abandoned.
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#3 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2009-August-18, 01:29

That's what my partner (catch22 on BBO) did, under time pressure. That's the first time I've seen a successful compound squeeze at the table.

The other hands were Q8652 Q9543 762 - and J10x - Q943 K98742. Could the defence have done better after trick one?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#4 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2009-August-18, 02:34

sure, duck some clubs to squeeze dummy
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#5 User is offline   MFA 

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Posted 2009-August-18, 04:16

The club discard T1 would almost always be from 5 or 6 clubs, and never from 4. I would have cashed at least 2 more hearts and then played clubs from the top. West won't have Kx (but perhaps stiff king) and east would be very likely to discard another club from a 6card suit, since it's tough to play me for a 5422 type with no info.
Michael Askgaard
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#6 User is offline   shyams 

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Posted 2009-August-18, 04:20

Fluffy, on Aug 18 2009, 09:34 AM, said:

sure, duck some clubs to squeeze dummy
I think the 12th trick will still materialise for declarer. East's duck at trick 2 is followed by heart finesse, HK, CA and H to A. East has to hold at least C K98 at this stage. The other four cards will most likely be DQ94 & SJ.

The same line as mentioned by louisg applies - Cashing two top tricks in unguarded suit (here spades) ending in hand creates the same problem for East; either he unguards clubs or diamonds. South has no discarding dilemma yet as both N&S have followed suit so far. There is a "guess" element in this though -- declarer has to still figure out if East held DQ or not.

The results link for this board: http://www.ebu.co.uk...match=8&board=6 (Note the diagram on EBU site has a small error. West D2 is shown as C2)
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#7 User is offline   louisg 

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Posted 2009-August-18, 06:42

gnasher, on Aug 18 2009, 02:29 AM, said:

That's what my partner (catch22 on BBO) did, under time pressure.  That's the first time I've seen a successful compound squeeze at the table.

The other hands were Q8652 Q9543 762 - and J10x - Q943 K98742.  Could the defence have done better after trick one?

I haven't worked out all the details yet, but it seems to me that a spade switch after winning the K should destroy the communications for the compound squeeze. The subsequent defense may vary depending upon which hand wins the spade.

EDIT: The spade switch doesn't hold declarer to 11 tricks by force, but it does reduce his options. He can still play for a simple club/diamond squeeze if he judges that RHO has the diamonds, or can win in hand and play a double squeeze around spades (winning when LHO has the Q or RHO has it singleton or doubleton), but must commit himself earlier in the play.
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#8 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2009-August-18, 08:44

gnasher, on Aug 17 2009, 05:29 PM, said:

Scoring: Matchpoints

1NT-2(1)
2NT(2)-3NT
(1) Range ask
(2) Minimum

West leads 4 and RHO throws a club, so you nod approvingly at partner's bidding. You win the jack in hand and lead Q. LHO discards, so you play low. RHO wins and returns a club.

Now what?

Claim? or do you play out the hand sort of like you used to pull the wings off of flies when you were a child? i.e. torture the opps :P
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#9 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2009-August-18, 08:48

gnasher, on Aug 18 2009, 02:29 AM, said:

That's what my partner (catch22 on BBO) did, under time pressure. That's the first time I've seen a successful compound squeeze at the table.

The other hands were Q8652 Q9543 762 - and J10x - Q943 K98742. Could the defence have done better after trick one?

excuse me but I keep miscounting the tricks I see 4, 4,2,&2 and you have already lost the K of at trick 2. So what am I missing?
"Tell me of your home world, Usul"
the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"

"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."

George Bernard Shaw
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#10 User is offline   bid_em_up 

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Posted 2009-August-18, 08:49

pooltuna, on Aug 18 2009, 09:48 AM, said:

excuse me but I keep miscounting the tricks I see 4, 4,2,&2 and you have already lost the K of at trick 2. So what am I missing?

You are missing that the clubs broke 6-0 so you only have 3 club tricks (after the Q was led at trick 2), and not 4.
Is the word "pass" not in your vocabulary?
So many experts, not enough X cards.
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#11 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2009-August-19, 01:09

louisg, on Aug 18 2009, 01:42 PM, said:

I haven't worked out all the details yet, but it seems to me that a spade switch after winning the K should destroy the communications for the compound squeeze.

I don't think so - you need only one entry to hand in a pointed suit. Win in hand and cash the hearts and A. Cash dummy's honour in the suit that East unguarded, then cross back to hand with K.

As SHyams points out, ducking one club and taking the next doesn't work. We can cash the hearts either before or after knocking out K.

The defence that does work (in that it forces us to guess who has Q rather than just guessing their shapes) is to duck two clubs, refusing to rectify the count for the squeeze. That gives us 11 top tricks, so we might think of switching tack and giving up a diamond to West. However, we've had to throw a diamond on the third round of clubs, so that's no longer possible.

Note that West can't afford to throw two hearts on the clubs. If he does, we can leave the two top hearts uncashed, and throw a heart on the third club. Now if East ducks we have both the communications and the diamond length to set up a diamond trick safely.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#12 User is offline   louisg 

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Posted 2009-August-19, 08:58

gnasher, on Aug 19 2009, 02:09 AM, said:

louisg, on Aug 18 2009, 01:42 PM, said:

I haven't worked out all the details yet, but it seems to me that a spade switch after winning the K should destroy the communications for the compound squeeze.

I don't think so - you need only one entry to hand in a pointed suit. Win in hand and cash the hearts and A. Cash dummy's honour in the suit that East unguarded, then cross back to hand with K.

Right. I stand corrected.
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