[Flame]

partner opened 2♠ which is 5 spades and (4)5 any other suit .
i held
x
x
AQxx
KJ9xxxx

It was MP , but i would be happy to know what your bid at both MP and IMP.

My bid was pass. i thought partner will have be 5/5 in majors about 85% of the time and bidding on will make it easy for the diffenders to panish us in 3M, while if partner has 5 minors opponents have 10 hearts and will bid 2h and give me an easier bid later, and even if they pass it might still be fine if they missed a better score in heart.

At imps there is a good chance to make a game if partner has a minor suit, on the other hand if partner have the majors then 3M D going down will hurt alot.

[inquiry]

Can't say, because I don't play this. But what I do play, is that 2 of a major shows five in bid major and 4+ in a minor. Playing that I am in love with this hand. And I am gonig to bid a lot.

Now, the question becomes, what do you play over 2M? Is 2NT your asking bid? I use 2NT as lebenhshol to get out in my suit at three level. Playing similar opposite a 5S, 4any, I would bid 2NT. If partner happened to have clubs, he is likely to bid 3D instead of the expected 3C (This says my second suit is clubs so we can compete based upon fit). Can you get out in eaxclty 3C's? If so, I think that is what I would do, and then I would switch to playing my way.. hehehehe...

Ben

[Trpltrbl]

You just showed the main reason why I and most others play 2M as 5M and 4+ minor. Never good to preempt pd out.

Mike

[hrothgar]

I am assuming that the opening promises preemptive strength

EASY pass. VERY easy pass.

Your best chance for a good score is defending
Your best bet for a bad score is declaring a doubled contract

[Flame]

For those who play 5 card major and 4 card minor , do you have a bid for both majors ?
Yes richard it was a premptive but sadly my partner had 4 card diamond and 2sp was passed out and we got a realy bad score (we played a simulation of an old top championship). this is atleast partly because i took too much time before i passed.

[luke warm]

Flame, on Jun 5 2004, 12:24 AM, said:

For those who play 5 card major and 4 card minor , do you have a bid for both majors ?
Yes richard it was a premptive but sadly my partner had 4 card diamond and 2sp was passed out and we got a realy bad score (we played a simulation of an old top championship). this is atleast partly because i took too much time before i passed.

well, now that you mention it (tho this was a strong club system i tinkered with a *longggggggg* time ago)... the whole system needs some work, but at the time we kinda liked this bid... here's the link

http://www.geocities...arm/2clubs.html

[Trpltrbl]

2♣ opening shows either weak majors or strong hand.

Mike

[Free]

Flame, on Jun 4 2004, 11:24 PM, said:

For those who play 5 card major and 4 card minor , do you have a bid for both majors ?
Yes richard it was a premptive but sadly my partner had 4 card diamond and 2sp was passed out and we got a realy bad score (we played a simulation of an old top championship). this is atleast partly because i took too much time before i passed.

If you have the 2♣ opening available, use it for 44+M weak or some strong hands. I play this for a while now, it comes up twice as much (if you play from 44+), has great preemptive strength and it's hard to defend against since we have both majors. However, strong hands are bid at 3-level (or 2NT)...

Otherwise use 2♥ for 44+M, since a 2♥ Lucas won't help you a lot (♠s is the suit you need).

[whereagles]

At matchpoints I bid 3♣, followed by 4♣ if pard bids hearts (this is a sign-off, right?). The reason is you're booked for a zero anyway if pard bids hearts, but if pard has diamonds, or if clubs plays three tricks better than spades, you cannot afford to be in 2♠. To put it in another way: if you pass, you score zero. If you try something else, you may or may not score zero. All to gain, nothing to lose.

By the way, I can hardly believe opps will take you out of 2♠. Especially if you spend too much time thinking about it []

At imps I pass, hoping to keep losses to a minimum. I might try the above sequence if I'm in an all-or-nothing situation.

[Free]

Nice thought whereagles, but what happens when p has ♣s? you'll miss game! not very frequent ofcourse, but you never know with such hands...

[inquiry]

Flame, on Jun 4 2004, 05:24 PM, said:

For those who play 5 card major and 4 card minor , do you have a bid for both majors ?
Yes richard it was a premptive but sadly my partner had 4 card diamond and 2sp was passed out and we got a realy bad score (we played a simulation of an old top championship). this is atleast partly because i took too much time  before i passed.

No, I don't have a preempt when holding both majors. But when you think about it, is that as useful? I mean, if you have both majors, you need for preempt is much less when you hold both majors.

I was not a fan of Muiderberg when it was forced upon me. I was a weak two guy all the way. However, partners wanted to play multi-2♦ so needed something for 2♥/2♠ to be.. Turns out, I have come to love Muiderberg, and have had consistently good results using it (well, last night an exception, when partner choose to raise a thrid seat 2♠ on a dog (the hand he raised with)....

Scoring: IMP

---

Bidding,
Pass-Pass-2♠-PAss (long, long hesistiation)
3♠ - Pass - Pass - DBL
All pass

Ok. LOTT says 5-3 fit, 2 level is enough, EW cold for 3NT (600), I should be down 800, but the defense slipped. In fairness to partner, he thought I openend 4th chair, not third chair 2♠, and in fairness to Muiderberg, this was the first time I stretched and opened 2♠ on 5-3-3-2 distribution (I did not have my second suit). As it was, I lost only 0.38 imps. My LHO had all the stuff, it is not clear that RHO would have reopened (well after the very long hesitation == much in excess of normal skip bid wait, I guess he would have. :-) )

Ben

[whereagles]

5-card weak twos are much better than Muiderberg. I learned this the hard way...

[MickyB]

whereagles, on Jun 7 2004, 09:58 AM, said:

5-card weak twos are much better than Muiderberg. I learned this the hard way...

Why do you think they are better?

I've played 5 card weak 2s a lot, I grew to dislike them. It messed up our total tricks calculations and played in a few 5-1s when Muiderberg would have got us into a 4-4.

[Free]

Vulnerable: Weak two's with 5 card are quite frequent in my partnership, but not in 1st and 2nd hand. We also play Muiderberg (this is the correct spelling btw ), so with a 5 card M in 3rd hand we either open 2♦ multi or 2M when we have a 4 card minor with it (with 44+M we open 2♣). That makes very frequent bids, and partner won't go nuts since he already passed and knows we're just jamming the auction I don't like these weak two's with 5332 distribution in 1st and 2nd, since you're asking for trouble, nowhere to run... They also are inferior to constructive weak openings, like MickeyBlue ( ) said...

Non-vulnerable: Open 2M with 4+ cards, let p pass and kick ass when opps bid 3NT (VERY frequent!) and your p doubles with 18 HCP 3rd hand, similar to the vulnerable section...

[whereagles]

MickyB: Pressure bidding has much more to do with looking at your cards and thinking, than with applying the law of total tricks That I also learned the hard way, eheh.

5-card weak twos are better than muiderberg because they put up more pressure on the opponents. Besides, when pard opens a muiderberg 2M, 95% of the time you play in the major suit. If the muiderberg 2M is effectively a disguised weak two, what's the point of playing it?

Non-vulnerable, the muiderberg structure (2M 54's, 2♦ multi) is inferior to 5-card weak twos because the 2M is basically the same as a weak two, while the 2♦ multi is vastly inferior to a direct weak two opening.

Vulnerable, you don't normally open 5-card weak twos (too risky), so there the muiderberg structure COULD be slightly superior, because it allows you to bid on some 5-card suits which a weak two structure would pass. However, opening a vuln 54 with broken suits often leads to bad scores (I know this from experience...) and good suits don't come up often enough to make the muiderberg structure more advantageous than the weak two one. And don't forget you lose the weak 2♦ opening on both the NV and V cases...

The reason you got bad results from 5-cards weak twos is probably because you can't expect that methods that were designed to deal with 6-card weak twos to apply equally well when 5-carders are possible.

You have to adapt your bidding methods and philosophy to a 5-card weak two. You need, for instance, to be able to distinguish a 5-card from a 6-card weak two when you open NV and pard bids a 2NT asking bid. You need to play a new suit as non-forcing, at least non-vulnerable. You may need a relay to look for side 4-card majors after 2♦, and possibly to have it replaced by a NEGATIVE double if opponents overcall and you want to compete. You may have to redefine your requirements for a 3-level preempt, etc. It's not just a matter of saying "let's relax it from 6 to 5 cards". You have to adapt to it as well.

[Fluffy]

Flame, on Jun 4 2004, 10:24 PM, said:

For those who play 5 card major and 4 card minor , do you have a bid for both majors ?
Yes richard it was a premptive but sadly my partner had 4 card diamond and 2sp was passed out and we got a realy bad score (we played a simulation of an old top championship). this is atleast partly because i took too much time before i passed.

Yes, simply use 2♥ for 5+♥ + another one, on the given hand it works because you won´t get to level 3.

I also play 2♦ opening as both majors weak or strong balanced combined with weak 2´s.