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1♠:2♥
2♠:3♠
4♣:5♠
2♥ gf
2♠ ♠'s
3♠'s we may have slam
4♣ cue
5♠ ? looking for ♦ control, trump quality or something completely different?
If you play one way, how do you check for the other.
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What is 5 spades for you?
#1
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Posted 2009-August-15, 08:44
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
#2
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Posted 2009-August-15, 08:48
5S here is looking for Diam Ctrl ( the unbid suit ) .
Checking for trump quality is 4NT-RKC as long as you don't have a void somewhere.
Checking for trump quality is 4NT-RKC as long as you don't have a void somewhere.
Don Stenmark ( TWOferBRIDGE )
#3
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Posted 2009-August-15, 08:57
ONEferBRID, on Aug 15 2009, 07:48 AM, said:
5D here is looking for Diam Ctrl ( the unbid suit ) .
Checking for trump quality is 4NT-RKC as long as you don't have a void somewhere.
Checking for trump quality is 4NT-RKC as long as you don't have a void somewhere.
Do you mean 5♠ is looking for ♦ control?
With a void,
1♠:2♥
2♠:3♠
4♣:5♦ is RKC outside of the ♦ suit?
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
#4
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Posted 2009-August-15, 09:18
4♥ is the obvious bid without diamond control
5 spades must be some kind of trump ask, putting the 6th spade and ♠J into the picture since you had 4NT avaible and you didn't splinter the round before.
5 spades must be some kind of trump ask, putting the 6th spade and ♠J into the picture since you had 4NT avaible and you didn't splinter the round before.
#5
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Posted 2009-August-15, 10:05
jillybean, on Aug 15 2009, 09:57 AM, said:
ONEferBRID, on Aug 15 2009, 07:48 AM, said:
5D here is looking for Diam Ctrl ( the unbid suit ) .
Checking for trump quality is 4NT-RKC as long as you don't have a void somewhere.
Checking for trump quality is 4NT-RKC as long as you don't have a void somewhere.
Do you mean 5♠ is looking for ♦ control?
With a void,
1♠:2♥
2♠:3♠
4♣:5♦ is RKC outside of the ♦ suit?
sounds good to me.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
#6
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Posted 2009-August-15, 10:08
how good are your trumps?
to look for a ♦ control I bid 4♥ - then we can stay in 4♠ if we don't have one
to look for a ♦ control I bid 4♥ - then we can stay in 4♠ if we don't have one
richard
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Posted 2009-August-15, 10:12
rd6789, on Aug 15 2009, 09:08 AM, said:
how good are your trumps?
to look for a ♦ control I bid 4♥ - then we can stay in 4♠ if we don't have one
to look for a ♦ control I bid 4♥ - then we can stay in 4♠ if we don't have one
We arent stopping at 4
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
#8
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Posted 2009-August-15, 10:21
Asking for control of the unbid suit, diamonds; opener passes or bids 6S with a diamond control.
If responder needed both a diamond control and good quality trumps, then he must have exceptional hand to have bid 3S (slam potential) instead of 4S (game) but he can bid 4H, denying diamond control and see what opener does.
If responder needed both a diamond control and good quality trumps, then he must have exceptional hand to have bid 3S (slam potential) instead of 4S (game) but he can bid 4H, denying diamond control and see what opener does.
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Posted 2009-August-15, 10:53
peachy, on Aug 15 2009, 09:21 AM, said:
Asking for control of the unbid suit, diamonds; opener passes or bids 6S with a diamond control.
If responder needed both a diamond control and good quality trumps, then he must have exceptional hand to have bid 3S (slam potential) instead of 4S (game) but he can bid 4H, denying diamond control and see what opener does.
If responder needed both a diamond control and good quality trumps, then he must have exceptional hand to have bid 3S (slam potential) instead of 4S (game) but he can bid 4H, denying diamond control and see what opener does.
Doesnt opener bid 6 without , 7 with?
I thought 5♠ is checking for grand.
Responder doesnt need both ♦ and trump quality, it was just the question, how do you ask for these 2 things.
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
#10
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Posted 2009-August-15, 11:53
If I just need a diamond control, I cuebid 4♥.
If I just need trumps I keycard.
5♠ for me would be a general slam try, partner accepts if he likes his hand.
If I just need trumps I keycard.
5♠ for me would be a general slam try, partner accepts if he likes his hand.
Kind regards,
Harald
Harald
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Posted 2009-August-16, 06:43
skaeran, on Aug 15 2009, 12:53 PM, said:
If I just need a diamond control, I cuebid 4♥.
If I just need trumps I keycard.
5♠ for me would be a general slam try, partner accepts if he likes his hand.
If I just need trumps I keycard.
5♠ for me would be a general slam try, partner accepts if he likes his hand.
so how about you hold Jxxx/AKQJxx/void/xxx - this is what I think a 5♠ bid shows - I can't use blackwood for trump quality as A♦ isn't relevant
or perhaps you use exlcusion for that (which i dont play)
richard
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Posted 2009-August-16, 10:10
5S is similar to GSF in that it is a command to bid 6 if second round control of diamonds is held, i.e., it is not asking for any judgment decisions.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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Posted 2009-August-16, 10:12
rd6789, on Aug 16 2009, 07:43 AM, said:
skaeran, on Aug 15 2009, 12:53 PM, said:
If I just need a diamond control, I cuebid 4♥.
If I just need trumps I keycard.
5♠ for me would be a general slam try, partner accepts if he likes his hand.
If I just need trumps I keycard.
5♠ for me would be a general slam try, partner accepts if he likes his hand.
so how about you hold Jxxx/AKQJxx/void/xxx - this is what I think a 5♠ bid shows - I can't use blackwood for trump quality as A♦ isn't relevant
or perhaps you use exlcusion for that (which i dont play)
I don't think the auction would have gone the same way. Probably more like 1S-2H, 2S-4D.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
#14
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Posted 2009-August-16, 10:15
skaeran, on Aug 15 2009, 12:53 PM, said:
If I just need a diamond control, I cuebid 4♥.
If I just need trumps I keycard.
5♠ for me would be a general slam try, partner accepts if he likes his hand.
If I just need trumps I keycard.
5♠ for me would be a general slam try, partner accepts if he likes his hand.
Interesting. 4H to me denies a diamond control but cooperates with slam, if partner is still interested, whereas 5S demands slam if a diamond control is held.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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Posted 2009-August-16, 10:17
Winstonm, on Aug 16 2009, 06:12 PM, said:
rd6789, on Aug 16 2009, 07:43 AM, said:
skaeran, on Aug 15 2009, 12:53 PM, said:
If I just need a diamond control, I cuebid 4♥.
If I just need trumps I keycard.
5♠ for me would be a general slam try, partner accepts if he likes his hand.
If I just need trumps I keycard.
5♠ for me would be a general slam try, partner accepts if he likes his hand.
so how about you hold Jxxx/AKQJxx/void/xxx - this is what I think a 5♠ bid shows - I can't use blackwood for trump quality as A♦ isn't relevant
or perhaps you use exlcusion for that (which i dont play)
I don't think the auction would have gone the same way. Probably more like 1S-2H, 2S-4D.
Agreed.
I do play Exclusion, though, but the hand would be different.
Kind regards,
Harald
Harald
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Posted 2009-August-17, 07:35
jillybean, on Aug 15 2009, 09:44 AM, said:
1♠:2♥
2♠:3♠
4♣:5♠
2♥ gf
2♠ ♠'s
3♠'s we may have slam
4♣ cue
5♠ ? looking for ♦ control, trump quality or something completely different?
If you play one way, how do you check for the other.
2♠:3♠
4♣:5♠
2♥ gf
2♠ ♠'s
3♠'s we may have slam
4♣ cue
5♠ ? looking for ♦ control, trump quality or something completely different?
If you play one way, how do you check for the other.
I think 5♠ should be a specific ask since the bid consumes a lot of space.
Best use is probably asking for 2 top Spade honors. Responder can have side suit controls and a source of tricks and some Spade holding like 5 small. 5NT GSF won't work if it asks for top 3 honors.
RichM
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