[mich-b]

Scoring: IMP

2♣-2♦
2NT - 3♣
3NT - ?

---

3♣ = puppet stayman
3NT = no majors.
(2NT was not available on the 1st round - would have shown ♥s).

What's the plan now?

[helene_t]

If there is a way to find out if opener has 5 diamonds, I do that. Otherwise I bid 6♣.

[aguahombre]

4C over 3NT is a natural call. Gerber is out if it is not a jump, the way we do it. 5C would be ace asking.

Therefore, 4C seems ok IF you want to press for slam. Partner knows you don't have a hand that would have bid 3C/2C with a positive response and six reasonable clubs.

However, Passing or bidding 4NT quantitative are not ridiculous either.

[Phil]

4♣. It sure would be nice to have this agreement over 4♣:

4♦ = real diamonds
4M - cue for clubs
4N = go away

[phil_20686]

I dont think i would ever consider passing here. Not sure that i have quite enough to drive slam opposite 23-24 balanced here, but its close. 4c is a nice firsty step. if partner shows primary club support i will drive to 6c. If he shows no interest i will have a tough decision, but i may well decided to make another try. I would really like to have some way that partner can show a good hand for slam with no fit, but i dont have one in my ssystem atm.
I would play that 4d after 4c is a cuebid normally, though its more of a value concentration than a cue.

[aguahombre]

Phil, on Aug 12 2009, 10:57 AM, said:

4♣. It sure would be nice to have this agreement over 4♣:

4♦ = real diamonds
4M - cue for clubs
4N = go away

Not only would it be nice, but it would be reasonable.

[ArtK78]

I have a balanced hand facing a balanced hand with a combined point count of 30-31 (32 is possible if you are allowed to rebid 2NT on a 24 count). Given that partner does not have a 4 card major, we have a club fit of between 7 and 10 cards. We also have a diamond fit of between 5 and 8 cards. Both of these assumptions are based on the fact that partner does not have a 6 card minor, which is a possibility.

I would bid 4NT. If partner is a maximum for his previous bidding, he will bid a long minor suit over 4NT. If partner is a minimum for his previous bidding, it is unlikely that there is a slam even if we have a very good fit.

In no event am I introducing Jxxxx on this auction (assuming that 4♣ is natural, which it should be).

Personally, I would not quibble with a pass of 3NT, although it seems timid.

[hrothgar]

ArtK78, on Aug 12 2009, 07:40 PM, said:

I have a balanced hand facing a balanced hand with a combined point count of 30-31 (32 is possible if you are allowed to rebid 2NT on a 24 count). Given that partner does not have a 4 card major, we have a club fit of between 7 and 10 cards. We also have a diamond fit of between 5 and 8 cards. Both of these assumptions are based on the fact that partner does not have a 6 card minor, which is a possibility.

I would bid 4NT. If partner is a maximum for his previous bidding, he will bid a long minor suit over 4NT. If partner is a minimum for his previous bidding, it is unlikely that there is a slam even if we have a very good fit.

In no event am I introducing Jxxxx on this auction (assuming that 4♣ is natural, which it should be).

Personally, I would not quibble with a pass of 3NT, although it seems timid.

What he said

[pooltuna]

ArtK78, on Aug 12 2009, 11:40 AM, said:

I have a balanced hand facing a balanced hand with a combined point count of 30-31 (32 is possible if you are allowed to rebid 2NT on a 24 count). Given that partner does not have a 4 card major, we have a club fit of between 7 and 10 cards. We also have a diamond fit of between 5 and 8 cards. Both of these assumptions are based on the fact that partner does not have a 6 card minor, which is a possibility.

I would bid 4NT. If partner is a maximum for his previous bidding, he will bid a long minor suit over 4NT. If partner is a minimum for his previous bidding, it is unlikely that there is a slam even if we have a very good fit.

In no event am I introducing Jxxxx on this auction (assuming that 4♣ is natural, which it should be).

Personally, I would not quibble with a pass of 3NT, although it seems timid.

if you think it is timid do a simul and I suspect you will find that 3NT is adequate

[cherdanno]

I would have bid 3N over 2N, assuming partner's range is 22-24.

[nigel_k]

Purely on values, I think it's on the upper end of a quantitative 4NT so I would not pass. The poor quality of the club suit is not such a problem opposite a good 22 to 24 with no major. However, the hand could easily play a trick better in clubs so I'm willing to play 6♣ any time partner has three or more of them. Playing from the wrong side is a slight worry but not so much that I'll reject playing in clubs. Who knows, maybe 6♣ protects my diamond tenace.

Bid 4♣ now. If partner bids 4NT next, pass and hope he is 3352 or slam fails for some other reason. If he does anything else bid 6♣.

If I could not bid clubs naturally, would just guess 6♣.

Excellent problem, btw.

[Phil]

As an aside, it is useful here to be able to suggest clubs and slide back into 4NT as a mild slam invitation.

[Fluffy]

What strenghtr did partner show?

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

either pass (if the max. count is 32HCP) or if we could have more
4NT.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[kenrexford]

4♣ at this point. Partner usually has a fit.

That said, this might be a better hand for bidding 3♠ immediately (minor or minors slammish) rather than Puppet stayman. You miss 5-3 heart fits that might be right, but you gain IF partner is allowed to bid 3NT as a statement of hesitation about your minor-suit slam interest and 4♣ only with minor-oriented extras. In the long run, I think missing the heart fit that might not exist anyway is less problematic than making a 4♣ call and bypassing 3NT when THAT might be wrong.

Aside:

Dabbling with two-way strong openings. Makes this one easier:

2♣(usually not 4+ spades)-P-2♦(GF waiting)-P-
2NT(definitely not four spades)-P-3♣(asking)-P-
3♦(not 4+ hearts)-P-3♠(mild slam try, some minor interest)

or

2♣(same)-P-2♦(same)-P-
2NT(same)-P-3♥(club flag, slam interest)

If you can divide up 2NT openings between those with 4-5 spades and those with 2-3 spades, you can do a LOT to explore the minors below 3NT.

[Cascade]

helene_t, on Aug 13 2009, 02:44 AM, said:

If there is a way to find out if opener has 5 diamonds, I do that. Otherwise I bid 6♣.

There is no rush. 4♣ for now.

[the hog]

hrothgar, on Aug 13 2009, 12:50 AM, said:

ArtK78, on Aug 12 2009, 07:40 PM, said:

I have a balanced hand facing a balanced hand with a combined point count of 30-31 (32 is possible if you are allowed to rebid 2NT on a 24 count).  Given that partner does not have a 4 card major, we have a club fit of between 7 and 10 cards.  We also have a diamond fit of between 5 and 8 cards.  Both of these assumptions are based on the fact that partner does not have a 6 card minor, which is a possibility.

I would bid 4NT.  If partner is a maximum for his previous bidding, he will bid a long minor suit over 4NT.  If partner is a minimum for his previous bidding, it is unlikely that there is a slam even if we have a very good fit.

In no event am I introducing Jxxxx on this auction (assuming that 4♣ is natural, which it should be).

Personally, I would not quibble with a pass of 3NT, although it seems timid.

What he said

Agree with both Richard and Art

[mike777]

mich-b, on Aug 12 2009, 09:41 AM, said:

Scoring: IMP

2♣-2♦
2NT - 3♣
3NT - ?

---

3♣ = puppet stayman
3NT = no majors.
(2NT was not available on the 1st round - would have shown ♥s).

What's the plan now?

I dont understand 3c; why not just 3nt over 2nt KISS.

If you love this hand then 4nt over 2nt....

[aguahombre]

mike777, on Aug 12 2009, 09:28 PM, said:

mich-b, on Aug 12 2009, 09:41 AM, said:

Scoring: IMP

2♣-2♦
2NT - 3♣
3NT - ?

---

3♣ = puppet stayman
3NT = no majors.
(2NT was not available on the 1st round - would have shown ♥s).

What's the plan now?

I dont understand 3c; why not just 3nt over 2nt KISS.

If you love this hand then 4nt over 2nt....

and KISS the 53 heart fit goodbye.. it was puppet

[nigel_k]

mike777, on Aug 12 2009, 09:28 PM, said:

I dont understand 3c; why not just 3nt over 2nt KISS.

Because a 5-3 heart fit with a ruffing value will play better than NT more often than it plays worse. KISS doesn't mean you refuse to seek the information you need when you have a straightforward and risk-free way of doing so.

It's even more important to play in eight card fits at the slam level compared to the game level because it pays off whenever the suit contract plays one trick better. At game level it only pays when the suit contract plays two tricks better.

What I don't like about the auction is the use of 3NT to deny a four card major. It does gain on hands of this type but often you'll bid 3♣ just to check for a five card major and otherwise play 3NT. In that case you don't want to tell the opponents that declarer has no four card major. Instead, just bid 3♦ with no five card major and responder can enquire further for four card majors if he wishes.