[LoneMonad]

i! have adopted transfers to the minors
which includes treatments for 55 in the minors
so
that makes my 3♣ 55 in the minors - invitational
and my 3♦ 55 in the minors - forcing
redundant

what are my choices for 1NT pass 3♣ or 3♦

[helene_t]

I think you can still play 3m as showing both minors. 1NT-2NT which is a transfer to diamonds can be used with a weak hand with both minors, if the negative rebid is 3♣ - then responder can pass 3♣ since a negative rebid most often is based on a double diamonds and hence at least three clubs. But it is not clear to me how invitational and forcing hands with both minors can be bid via minor suit transfers.

Another use of 3♣ is as Puppet Stayman.

[LoneMonad]

1NT pass 2♠ pass
2NT = no ♣fit
3♣ = ♣fit (preaccept to 3NT)

1NT pass 2NT pass
3♣ = no♦fit
3♦ = ♦fit (preaccept to 3NT)

so
1NT pass 2NT (55 minors weak) pass
3♣ or 3♦ pass pass pass

1NT pass 2♠ (55 minors strong) pass
2NT or 3♣ pass 3♦

i Like 3♣ (puppet)
then maybe 3♦ would be 55 minors invitational

do i have other good choices?

[kenrexford]

Something similar:

2NT ostensibly a transfer to diamonds. If Opener prefers clubs, he bids 3♣, and Responder passes whatever with the weak minor two-suiter.

2♠ ostensibly a transfer to clubs. 3M after whatever Opener bids is shortness, both minors, slammish. If opener bids 3♣, he has a minimum with club preference over diamonds; Responder passes this with 5-5 intermediate. If Opener bids 2NT, he has a maximum or preference for diamonds. Responder, when 5-5minors invitational, bids 3♦. If Opener had a minimum with preference for diamonds, he passes. With a maximum, he bids on. "Minimum" and "maximum" mean whether opener would sign off opposite an invitational with minors or not.

3♣ Puppet.

3♦ for 5-5 majors, invitational+. Opener signs off (3M) with a minimum, 3NT with a 2-2 majors game acceptance, 4M with game-only acceptances, and 4C(♥flag) or 4♦(spade flag) with indicated fit and "slam values" (re-transfers; not re-transferring is LTTC).

Something like that.

[peachy]

I play 4-suit transfers, with "bid the suit if like it". This provides structure for allowing us to play in whichever minor or minors responder might have.
1N-3C is Puppet Stayman and 1N-3M is singleton with 5/4 or 4/5 in minors but the 3D bid is still idle...seems like wasted resource somehow

[Fluffy]

I think many people played years ago that 3m was an invitational hand with 2 top honors in the minor.

something like

Qxx
xx
xx
KQxxxx


Partner is encouraged to bid 3NT if he has the other top honnor.

[LoneMonad]

Quote

I think many people played years ago that 3m was an invitational hand with 2 top honors in the minor.

something like

Qxx
xx
xx
KQxxxx

how would this b different from 1NT - 2♠(transfer to♣?

[rbforster]

kenrexford, on Aug 12 2009, 07:11 PM, said:

2NT ostensibly a transfer to diamonds.  If Opener prefers clubs, he bids 3♣, and Responder passes whatever with the weak minor two-suiter.

2♠ ostensibly a transfer to clubs.  3M after whatever Opener bids is shortness, both minors, slammish.  If opener bids 3♣, he has a minimum with club preference over diamonds; Responder passes this with 5-5 intermediate.  If Opener bids 2NT, he has a maximum or preference for diamonds.  Responder, when 5-5minors invitational, bids 3♦.  If Opener had a minimum with preference for diamonds, he passes.  With a maximum, he bids on.  "Minimum" and "maximum" mean whether opener would sign off opposite an invitational with minors or not.

3♣ Puppet.
3♦ for 5-5 majors, invitational+. 

Regarding your 2♠ showing clubs, I'm not quite sure about the followups. In particular, if under your scheme:

1N-2♠-2N any max, or min with diamond preference
1N-2♠-3♣ min with club preference

I think you're not really able to sort out the "1-suited club invite" properly when opener has an acceptance. Responder will basically have to bid 3♣ over a 2N rebid by opener regardless, and now opener can't safely bid on since this could be a 1-suited signoff.

My preference is to use something similar, but just have opener's 2N=♦, 3♣=♣ without regard to strength, and thereafter bidding 3m by responder is to play. This means 2♠ works well to show both minors weak or GF, as well as weak 1-suited minor signoffs. My standard strong NT system of choice is currently:

2♠ 1 or both minors weak, or 5/4+ minors GF (opener bids 2N with diamond pref, 3♣ with club)
2N natural invite
3m 1 suited invite with a good suit
3♥ 5/5 majors invite
3♠ 5/5 majors GF

[STRIK3R]

Minor transfers after 1NT openings are always a subject for discussion. Like most of you know, bidding in Norway is highly competetion, so what you must know from the very start of the bidding is if the bid is weak, strong or invitational. To find the answers to that, you need to have realy good system agreement with you partner. We have done something like this:

Opener: Responder: Showing:
1NT
2♠ weak hand with ♣
2 NT weak hand with ♦
3♣ AK/AQ/KQxxxx in ♣
3♦ AK/AQ/KQxxxx in ♦
3♥ slam try in ♣
3♠ slam try in ♦

Since you dont need 3♥/♠ to show any major hand, you can free them to show minors instead

[glen]

STRIK3R, on Aug 17 2009, 09:08 AM, said:

Minor transfers after 1NT openings are always a subject for discussion. Like most of you know, bidding in Norway is highly competetion, so what you must know from the very start of the bidding is if the bid is weak, strong or invitational. To find the answers to that, you need to have realy good system agreement with you partner. We have done something like this:

Opener:    Responder:      Showing:
1NT          
                2♠              weak hand with ♣
                2 NT                weak hand with ♦
                3♣              AK/AQ/KQxxxx in ♣
                3♦              AK/AQ/KQxxxx in ♦
                3♥              slam try in ♣
                3♠              slam try in ♦

Since you dont need 3♥/♠ to show any major hand, you can free them to show minors instead

For bidding space (and other reasons) couldn't you play:

2♠: non-weak hand with a minor. 2NT asks, and then:
-- 3♣: AK/AQ/KQxxxx in ♣
-- 3♦: AK/AQ/KQxxxx in ♦
-- 3♥: slam try in ♣
-- 3♠: slam try in ♦
-- 3NT: slam try with 5♦s
2NT: weak hand in a minor (can be played with some strong options as well)
--3♣/♦: pass or correct

Then you have 3♣ etc. available for things like the next post:

[Free]

You might like this:
3♣ = weak with both Minors (this keeps your transfers "pure")
3♦ = invitational with a 6 card Major (aka "multi-invite")
Using multi-invite, you can use transfer followed by 3M as forcing which improves your slam bidding...

Another approach might be to include some 4441-distributions in 3m.

[ArtK78]

With one partner I play something very simple and yet very effective.

3 level responses to 1NT are splinters - 4441. Game forcing values.

This was not my idea, but I played it on a couple of occasions. Not only is it easy to remember, it solves a lot of problems and can lead to a very effective contract.

I specifically remember one instance at IMPs where we had the following auction:

1NT - 3♦*
5♣ - P


3NT is the normal contract that you would reach after a Stayman sequence. The diamond stopper was Axx opposite x. This was not a success. 5♣, on the other hand, was cold.

There are many more exotic methods that one can play over 1NT openings which might show 4441 hands. But this was simple to use, which is good in an occasional partnership.

[benlessard]

one of the best method IMO is 2S as MSS.

2S is used for both m weak, both m strong and for soff in 1 minor.

1NT--------2S
???


2NT = i prefer diamonds
3C = i prefer clubs

if responder bid 3m its to play otherwise hes showing 5-5 strong (could be 1345) if you want to free the 1NT-----3M bids.

2NT to 3D is free for whatever now. You can used 2NT for multi-inv in a minor. Or for a club transfer at least INV.

[STRIK3R]

You could of course use 2♠ as a general transfer and 2NT to ask what it was ment for, but if you bid like that you will get the declarer on the weak hand and the lead will go trew the strong hand, rather then up in the strong hand, there is a reason for why you should transfer and not bid you suite. The reason is to protect your hand, and another point is that the 1NT opener should be only doing what the responder whant him to do.

So if you have a transfer bid and a relay to ask what it is, you will find it difficult to investigate more about the 1NT opening hand, since you find that 1NT opener is suddenly the one asking about responders hand. That makes no sence.

1NT is a defined bid, therefor, responder should be asking and suggest contracts to be played, and if you have to many relays you will find it hard to understand what is ment with a transfer bid to any, if you get interference from opponents. Todays bidding is aggressiv, that means that opponents bid like crazy when you open 1NT, since they have all kinds of defence against 1NT. So the best thing is to have all bids defined as something straight away, that way you dont have to guess or be unsecure about the meaning of a bid

[lexlogan]

I use all 3 level jumps as one-suited slam tries. Such hands are generally awkward to bid if you start with a transfer, nor is there any compelling reason to make opener declarer when responder has similar strength. Consider a hand such as:
xx Axx AQxxx KQx . A simple jump to 3D clues partner in that you're thinking slam, not just game; the bidding might proceed 1NT-3D-3S-3NT, after which opener might pass with a non-slammish hand, or continue with a cue-bid or general 4NT invitation.