[Phil]

Imps, we are vul

Scoring: IMP

---

1♦ - pass - 2♣ - (2♥)
pass - pass - 2♠ - pass
3♣ - (3♥) - pass - pass
dbl - pass - 3N - AP


ATB for not reaching 5♣. 4♠ might make but I'm not sure.

[TimG]

I think west is primarily to blame. I don't like doubling 3♥ and once partner pulls to 3N it's easy to imagine a running club suit and the ♥A as the only tricks available (before the defenders cash out).

[nigel_k]

There are a number of hands for West that make 3NT correct from East's POV, e.g. AKx Kxx QJxx xxx.

You have to work harder to construct a hand for East that makes 3NT correct from West's POV. Maybe Jxxx xx Ax AKQxx.

I'd say West 80%.

[quiddity]

3NT by East?! West had two chances to bid NT and declined to do so. Why on earth would East play him for Kxx?

[Echognome]

I'd say more East than West. West has declined NT twice.

I like the hand construction from Nigel, but for his construction of where 3NT was right from East's point of view, he placed West with both missing spade honors, whereas west placed east with solid clubs and the missing diamond honor.

However, I don't think either player did anything egregious.

[sathyab]

Echognome, on Aug 12 2009, 04:14 PM, said:

I'd say more East than West. West has declined NT twice.

I like the hand construction from Nigel, but for his construction of where 3NT was right from East's point of view, he placed West with both missing spade honors, whereas west placed east with solid clubs and the missing diamond honor.

However, I don't think either player did anything egregious.

Or how about xxx KJx AKxx xxx, that's hardly an opener and 3nt is the most likely game for EW.

[cherdanno]

sathyab, on Aug 12 2009, 06:01 PM, said:

Echognome, on Aug 12 2009, 04:14 PM, said:

I'd say more East than West.  West has declined NT twice.

I like the hand construction from Nigel, but for his construction of where 3NT was right from East's point of view, he placed West with both missing spade honors, whereas west placed east with solid clubs and the missing diamond honor.

However, I don't think either player did anything egregious.

Or how about xxx KJx AKxx xxx, that's hardly an opener and 3nt is the most likely game for EW.

That hand would bid 2NT not 3♣.

[sathyab]

nigel_k, on Aug 12 2009, 03:39 PM, said:

There are a number of hands for West that make 3NT correct from East's POV, e.g. AKx Kxx QJxx xxx.

You have to work harder to construct a hand for East that makes 3NT correct from West's POV. Maybe Jxxx xx Ax AKQxx.

I'd say West 80%.

There are many bids here that even established partnerships might not have discussed.

1) Can West bid 2♠ over 2♥ without showing extra values, just as he would have if there was no intervention. Assuming he could, East need not bid ♠s naturally any more, as he's most likely looking for 3nt or 5♣.

2) Given the way the bidding went, what all does 3♣ deny ? As pointed out by Cherdano, it denies a holding such as KJx in ♥s. Could it also deny a hand that's suitable for 3nt opposite solid clubs, say a hand like Kxx Kxx AKxx xxx ? What would you bid with that hand BTW ?

3) East had an opportunity to bid 3♥ himself when 2♥ came around to him, which he would have had he had solid clubs and ♦A, as he has seven or eight tricks with a heart stopper and is allowed to play the opener for two more tricks. In view of his subsequent 3nt knowing that there's only one ♥ stopper in the combined hands, he must have solid clubs, therefore it's unlikely he has another Ace, especially the ♦A as that have could produced enough tricks with a single ♥ stopper.

4) And finally East could have doubled 3♥ himself, obviously West would know that East is short in ♥s. What would such a double mean ? If passing now and pulling partner's double shows solid clubs, should an immediate double show a broken club suit, warning partner that he not only needs a stopper but also a club filler ?

Tough as this problem is, in that not a single pair reached 5♣, imagine how much harder it gets if North bids 3♥ directly

[Cascade]

What did the bidding mean?

Specifically how forcing was 2♠?

and what was the double of 3♥?

[se12sam]

What would a dbl of 2♥ by East would mean in this sequence? Would it not be takeout (4♠ + ♥ shortage)? Presumably 2♣ was 2/1 GF, so West knows about the HCP.

I must be wrong because nobody has suggested this as a likely action for East. But I am curious why others do not consider this as a potential call by East...

[mike777]

Phil, on Aug 12 2009, 02:25 PM, said:

Imps, we are vul

<!-- EASTWEST begin --><table border='1'> <tr> <td> <table> <tr> <td>Dealer:</td> <td> West </td> </tr> <tr> <td>Vul:</td> <td> E/W </td> </tr> <tr> <td>Scoring:</td> <td> IMP </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td> <table> <tr> <th> <table> <tr> <th class='spades'>♠</th> <td> Kxx </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='hearts'>♥</th> <td> Axx </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='diamonds'>♦</th> <td> KQxx </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='clubs'>♣</th> <td> Txx </td> </tr> </table> </th> <th> <table> <tr> <th class='spades'>♠</th> <td> QJxx </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='hearts'>♥</th> <td> x </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='diamonds'>♦</th> <td> Tx </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='clubs'>♣</th> <td> AKQJxx </td> </tr> </table> </th> </tr> </table> </td> <td>  </td> </tr> </table><!-- EASTWEST end -->

1♦ - pass - 2♣ - (2♥)
pass - pass - 2♠ - pass
3♣ - (3♥) - pass - pass
dbl - pass - 3N - AP


ATB for not reaching 5♣. 4♠ might make but I'm not sure.

I assume based on your post that:
1d=crap
so now I just x over 2h
2) assume 2c=100% game force

[Phil]

Cascade, on Aug 12 2009, 10:08 PM, said:

What did the bidding mean?

Specifically how forcing was 2♠?

and what was the double of 3♥?

2♣ was a game force.

We hadn't discussed doubles here, but I generally play them as penalty.

[pooltuna]

Phil, on Aug 12 2009, 02:25 PM, said:

Imps, we are vul

Scoring: IMP

---

1♦ - pass - 2♣ - (2♥)
pass - pass - 2♠ - pass
3♣ - (3♥) - pass - pass
dbl - pass - 3N - AP


ATB for not reaching 5♣. 4♠ might make but I'm not sure.

I only assign blame to Lady Luck who took 11 HCP (all pointy cards) and created no possible chance for 2 fast tricks with them.

[hatchett]

I give West most of the blame. I don't really like the penalty double of 3♥ but having done this and to then see partner pull it I would not sit 3NT. I have a hard job constructing a hand consistent with the pull that has 9 runners in 3nt where we can't make 5♣. For a start for the pull I don't partner to have more than 1 ♥.