[Fluffy]

I think karlson got it, if you bid 3 hearts, followed by 4 diamonds, followed by 5 diamonds/hearts, partner will know you need a club control. and might even think of 7 with 5th unbid trump and stiff ace.

[agumperz]

ONEferBRID, on Aug 12 2009, 05:45 AM, said:

Andrew.....
    I thought "normally" that 5S! in the following auction is:
- - a demand to bid slam if responder controls  SPADES ( not clubs ).

1C -- 1S
4C! -- 4S
5S! -- 7S

I was wondering if 5C! instead would/should be used to ask about Cl Ctrls in this special systemic auction ?

  - -  Don  - -

Before the days of keycard blackwood, a raise to 5S in some auctions asked partner to bid slam with good trumps. However, it was a dubious idea then (how many times is it right to drive to the 5-level with weak trumps?) and it is virtually completely unnecessary today now it is easy to ask for the king and queen of trumps via RKC.

IMO, 5M calls should virtually always ask for a control in a specific suit. When two side suits have been bid, then 5M asks about the unbid suit. When only one suit has been bid, 5M asks about control of the bid suit. In the actual auction if you were missing a red suit control, you would cuebid 5C or 5D to see if partner can cue the missing control in return.

You could make the agreement that 5C by opener asks for a club control instead of showing, but you'd wait a long time before using it again. I would not want to make a special agreement for this specific auction. Its too likely to get forgotten.


Andrew

[mike777]

Double !, on Aug 10 2009, 01:25 PM, said:

Scoring format = MBC imp pairs
No one vulnerable

You hold, I guess, as dealer (irrelevant)

♠: A K J 3
♥: A
♦: A
♣: Q J 7 6 5 4 3

What is your decision in terms of opening bid? Do you bid 1♣, 2♣, or something else?
Playing BBO adv 2/1, Sayc, or Acol with whatever gadgets you prefer. Nothing esoteric, please & not playing any strong club or diamond system. (Actually, Benjamin 2-bids might or might not be helpful on this hand). Please don't look at responder's hand until you've decided on your opening bid and follow-up rebids.

Decision #1: If you decide to bid 1♣ (as I did), partner will respond 1♠. Wow. (my imitation of Ben Stein) What is your bidding plan now for this hand.

Decision #2: If you decide to open 2♣, partner may respond 2♦ (whether or not you play a response of 2♥ as a dbl negative, or partner might respond 2♠, depending on partnership criteria for a positive response. If partner responds 2♦ and you decide to rebid 3♣, partner will likely bid 3♠. How would you continue at this point?

How would you continue should partner initially respond 2♠?

(BTW: not advising this, but wondering what 2C - 2D - 4C would mean to people?)
Thank y'all in advance for your responses to this post. Enjoy!



Partner's hand:

♠: Q 9 8 7 5
♥: Q 4 3
♦: 7 5 3 2
♣: A


We had what I thought was a sensible (my opinion, only) albeit creative auction to get to 6S, making 7.
Is there a sensible way to bid to a reasonable 7 Spade contract? What tools do you have for asking about responder's club holding without committing the hand to the 6-level prematurely?


DHL

2c=dead mini......one club is fine

[Double !]

I very much appreciate the replies that you all have offered. However, one suggestion made by several has taken me by surprise, specifically, the 4C rebid by opener. I am quite aware that this bid shows a GF+ hand with 4-card trump support (in this case, spades), but i have been under the impression for a very long time that such a rebid required a better club suit (or diamond suit if one opens 1 diamond), at least something like AKT 6th or better. That was one major reason that I did not select a 4C rebid.

So, I am now curious about whether the more current definition or norm regarding a 4C rebid allows for a suit missing both the ace and king, and just shows length in clubs and a GF+ spade raise? I would really appreciate feedback about this.

As Always, thanks in advance.
DHL

[agumperz]

Double !, on Aug 13 2009, 08:42 PM, said:

I very much appreciate the replies that you all have offered. However, one suggestion made by several has taken me by surprise, specifically, the 4C rebid by opener. I am quite aware that this bid shows a GF+ hand with 4-card trump support (in this case, spades), but i have been under the impression for a very long time that such a rebid required a better club suit (or diamond suit if one opens 1 diamond), at least something like AKT 6th or better. That was one major reason that I did not select a 4C rebid.

So, I am now curious about whether the more current definition or norm regarding a 4C rebid allows for a suit missing both the ace and king, and just shows length in clubs and a GF+ spade raise? I would really appreciate feedback about this.

As Always, thanks in advance.
DHL

Under normal circumstances the suit would be better, and I don't think the norm has changed. When I suggested 4C, I was improvising a response that I thought was most descriptive and would focus partner on evaluating his cards accurately. A 4C call informs him that his hypothetical club honors are valuable, while his secondary red suit honors are not.


Andrew

[qwery_hi]

If there is a way we can set clubs as trumps and then ask for keycards, we can convert to 6!S or 7!S later. This way we can also find out about the club A/K.

So if 3!C then 4!C would be rkc for clubs, I would do that.