[bluejak]

While we do not have the recorder system in England - nor are likely to owing to some people's views - I sometimes wonder whether it is over-used. If a player is loud and obnoxious the solution is to call the TD, not to write something down.

[Jlall]

bluejak, on Aug 7 2009, 04:15 PM, said:

While we do not have the recorder system in England - nor are likely to owing to some people's views - I sometimes wonder whether it is over-used. If a player is loud and obnoxious the solution is to call the TD, not to write something down.

Overused by some, underused by most.

[blackshoe]

Frankly, if I were at a tournament where someone was loud and obnoxious, and I saw that the TD had been called and dealt with it, I would probably not bother with a player memo, unless {a} it happened at my table, and {b} I knew the player has a habit of being loud and obnoxious.

[mtvesuvius]

The only time I have used a recorder form I was quite pleased with the result... I was playing in the Smithtown regional in NY, we were delayed for the evening session my traffic, and arrived about 1 minute late, where we found our table and were told the boards were shuffled. The first 3 of the 4 boards were normalish, however on the 4th board we had a very interesting situation.

I picked up his hand, which was sorted... I didn't pay much attention to it, and bid as normal and passed. My LHO opened 1♦, and after my RHO had shown an Invitational hand w/♦ support (RHO has Axx Ax Axxx xxxx), and my LHO forced to slam with KQx QJ QJTxx KJT. Both red kings were onside, and the AQ♣ were onside. After the board was over, I called the director, and explained the situation. The director (of course) told me to be careful about accusing people of cheating, since he couldn't adjust the result, I asked to fill out a recorder form. We still won the match by 14 IMPs, but it cost us a place overall... I accepted it and moved on.

While in DC, a director approached me, and informed me that the recorder had found other information on this person... and action was taken. I haven't had other instances where it seemed a recorder form was necessary, however the only time I used it, it did the job very well.

Of course I'm sure this is not always the way things work, since if there is nothing else on record nothing is done, but still... it was somewhat satisfying to know that some action was taken.

[JoAnneM]

I agree with Blackshoe. However, when I, as unit president, am getting letters from more than one person, who are also unit presidents reporting from their members, that this behavior was going on the entire day, I have to believe that this was a situation that made our event unpleasant.

[pigpenz]

JoAnneM, on Aug 7 2009, 11:57 AM, said:

I have a "situation" right now that I have to handle when I get home from the regional I am attending. We had our local sectional recently. I have received two emails from players whom I highly respect complaining about the conduct of a player at the tournament.

They did not play against this player, but I did. The problem was that this player was loud and obnoxious evidently every round after the first one. We blitzed their team (maybe that was the problem.) I witnessed only one of the occurrences and our director was at the table handling it.

The two letters I received said that many players were complaining and that they think "something" should be done. I guess I should first contact the TD and see if a player memo was written, or if she gave a zero tolerance penalty, and then go from there. I showed the emails to the directing staff here at the Regional and they said people can't just complain they have to actually write things up, which should have been done at the tournament. We actually have a unit recorder who follows through on stuff.

yes but they should go through the recorder forms and keep them on file. I dont know if e mail is considered the proper channel to go through. Signing the recorder form has a little more importance than an email in my opinion.

I have run into very good players at the Reno Regional where just approaching them about something that was filed against them brought about improper behaviour from them but I could live with it.

[Mbodell]

Seems like there is a wide range of behavior that brings about player memos. I have never filed one. Even when players are loud or obnoxious at my table I'm unlikely to call a TD (unless they are insulting or harrassing my partner), let alone fill out a memo.

I had teammates at a premier 2 day regional swiss who wanted to fill out a player memo because they were super cheesed that their opponents doubled a keycard response for lead with Qxxx in a suit and lead them to try 6nt down "right siding" Kx in that suit also missing the A. They ended up not doing so. This seemed like a dubious case for me, but maybe if you wanted to try and set up a patern of a concealed agreement it would be good to do so.

I had teammates at an NABC+ in DC just last week who filled out a player memo for when one of them, as dummy, witnessed one of his opponents mouth something like "take it, take it, take it" when her partner was tanking with Kxx of trump in front of Qxx on the board when she wanted a ruff with her xx of trump. I was impressed with teammates composure to wait until the end of the hand before calling the director and to fill out the memo without a fist fight breaking out, as I think I would have been so shocked by that behavior I might well have reacted more harshly just instinctively.

I agree with the earlier suggestions that more transparency would be good, even if names and/or identifying information was redacted. I know I enjoy reading the appeal cases, even when the names are left off, to learn about proper rulings and contraversial cases. Reading the recorder cases and results would help people have confidence with the process (or highlight problems if they exist) and would also help teach people what are appropriate steps to take in certain situations (should you fill out a memo, should you stop that behavior, etc.).

[Sadie3]

It is my understanding that a recorder only records incidents. (s)he has no power of disciplinary actions other than submitting a request to investigate to the proper regulating authority if the situation warrants. I think that the report can not be used as evidence either, because there is a privacy issue concerning the protection of those that have reported the incident. There is also the issue of protecting the offending party as well. We are a system of innocent until proven guilty.