[hrothgar]

Quote

The president of the United States, in a top-secret phone call to a major European ally, asked for French troops to join American soldiers in attacking Iraq as a mission from God. Now out of office, Chirac recounts that the American leader appealed to their “common faith” (Christianity) and told him: “Gog and Magog are at work in the Middle East…. The biblical prophecies are being fulfilled…. This confrontation is willed by God, who wants to use this conflict to erase his people’s enemies before a New Age begins.”

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_...q-invasion.html

[OleBerg]

Reminds me of an old anecdote:

Newspapers claimed that it was Nancy Reagan's fortune-teller that effectively made all the foreign policy decisions during the Reagan administration.
One of Reagan's harshest critics was asked to comment on this, and replied that he was relieved. He had feared that Reagen himself made the decisions.

[PassedOut]

Wow, quite an interesting report by James A. Haught, editor of the Charleston (West Virginia) Gazette: A French Revelation, or The Burning Bush

Quote

Now out of office, Chirac recounts that the American leader appealed to their “common faith” (Christianity) and told him: “Gog and Magog are at work in the Middle East…. The biblical prophecies are being fulfilled…. This confrontation is willed by God, who wants to use this conflict to erase his people’s enemies before a New Age begins.”

This bizarre episode occurred while the White House was assembling its “coalition of the willing” to unleash the Iraq invasion. Chirac says he was boggled by Bush’s call and “wondered how someone could be so superficial and fanatical in their beliefs.”

After the 2003 call, the puzzled French leader didn’t comply with Bush’s request. Instead, his staff asked Thomas Romer, a theologian at the University of Lausanne, to analyze the weird appeal. Dr. Romer explained that the Old Testament book of Ezekiel contains two chapters (38 and 39) in which God rages against Gog and Magog, sinister and mysterious forces menacing Israel.

Folks who think that the US corporate media has a bias against republicans should compare the attention this claim has gotten with the focus on the nonsense claim about Obama's citizenship.

[Jlall]

Wow...just wow.

[Al_U_Card]

The surprise is in the fact that he is revealing it....is he dying or something?

[kenberg]

Two obvious questions:
1. Did Bush say this?
2. Did Chirac say that he said it?

Question 1 is naturally difficult to answer with confidence but how about question 2?
This one may not be so clear either. The story apparently comes from the book

http://www.amazon.fr/Si-vous-r%C3%A9p%C3%A...n/dp/225921021X

Someone more up than I am on French authors might comment.


However, how likely is it that a former president of France would reveal the contents of a "top secret" (whatever that means) conversation with another head of state? It seems it would make future conversations between heads of state considerably more difficult.

This has the air of a hoax, with the author setting up his defense in advace through the title of the book "If you repeat it I will deny". Maybe "If you make it up I will deny" is more fitting.


I am no fan of Mr. Bush but this seems a bit crazy even for him.

[luke warm]

kenberg, on Aug 7 2009, 09:45 AM, said:

Two obvious questions:
1. Did Bush say this?
2. Did Chirac say that he said it?

it should be easy to prove, i'm sure the conversation was taped

[hrothgar]

luke warm, on Aug 7 2009, 06:56 PM, said:

kenberg, on Aug 7 2009, 09:45 AM, said:

Two obvious questions:
1. Did Bush say this?
2. Did Chirac say that he said it?

it should be easy to prove, i'm sure the conversation was taped

Because if there is one thing that the Bush administration was know for, its providing information in an open and accountable manner

[y66]

In his post which refers to James Haught's story about Bush, Chirac, Gog, Magog & Co, Andrew Sullivan asks "Is this true?".

That seems disingenuous at best. Pretty lame actually to post stuff like this without more to go on. Will be disappointed if my favorite blogger doesn't apologize to his readers for this. Come on!

[kenberg]

Presumably someone in France has asked Chirac if the story is true. Of course if Chirac says non, this could be taken as evidence that it is true since Maurice has announced that what has been said will be denied. Maybe Jean-Claude Maurice and Oliver Stone could get together on a film. The world awaits.

[PassedOut]

y66, on Aug 7 2009, 11:35 AM, said:

In his post which refers to James Haught's story about Bush, Chirac, Gog, Magog & Co, Andrew Sullivan asks "Is this true?".

That seems disingenuous at best. Pretty lame actually to post stuff like this without more to go on. Will be disappointed if my favorite blogger doesn't apologize to his readers for this. Come on!

I'd really like to see some investigative journalism on this one to get a line on whether it's false or not. I'd like to think that the failure of most US newspapers to pick this story up means that there is nothing to it, but I'm no longer making that assumption. I hope Sullivan's pot-stirring motivates some answers.

[kfay]

kenberg, on Aug 7 2009, 09:45 AM, said:

I am no fan of Mr. Bush but this seems a bit crazy even for him.

Totally agree. Hard to imagine any public official saying anything remotely close to this who's trying to ask another country to go to war? Doesn't jive.

[cherdanno]

kfay, on Aug 7 2009, 11:59 AM, said:

kenberg, on Aug 7 2009, 09:45 AM, said:

I am no fan of Mr. Bush but this seems a bit crazy even for him.

Totally agree. Hard to imagine any public saying anything remotely close to this who's trying to ask another country to go to war? Doesn't jive.

I find it hard to imagine until you remember that George Bush was president until last year.
Have you seen the cover photos of the DoD intelligence reports to the white house? Fits very well I have to say.

[PassedOut]

Andrew Sullivan thinks that the media needs a lot of prodding to follow up on stories like this one: Gog, Magog And The MSM

Quote

If you think the networks or MSM will ask Bush or Cheney this question and ask them if Chirac made this up, you need to move to a counry where mainstream journalists are unafraid of those in power and less eager to book them on their Sunday shows than ask them real questions that would tick them off.

If this story is false, I want to know it.

[Al_U_Card]

As far as "W" is concerned, I am sure that he knows of good and evil and the devil and maybe even the rapture but Gog and Magog? He likely slept thru that part of Sunday School....

[cherdanno]

y66, on Aug 7 2009, 11:35 AM, said:

In his post which refers to James Haught's story about Bush, Chirac, Gog, Magog & Co, Andrew Sullivan asks "Is this true?".

That seems disingenuous at best. Pretty lame actually to post stuff like this without more to go on. Will be disappointed if my favorite blogger doesn't apologize to his readers for this. Come on!

I can't believe you are writing this. This is ALWAYS Sullivan's style - if there is information that points that something outrageous has happened, he will link to it, and demand for more investigation/clarification/proof. "He is an inquiring mind" doesn't seem to fit better on anyone but him.
The only reason it annoys you this time is because you personally cannot imagine that the story is true.

[Aberlour10]

There is a similar story in german newspapers in these days...about Blackwater CEO as a self-appointed "Christian crusader"..etc etc....real facts behind it?

Robert

[PassedOut]

Aberlour10, on Aug 7 2009, 12:37 PM, said:

There is a similar story in german newspapers in these days...about Blackwater CEO as a self-appointed "Christian crusader"..etc etc....real facts behind it?

Robert

That story has been getting coverage here in the US too.

[kenberg]

Aberlour10, on Aug 7 2009, 12:37 PM, said:

There is a similar story in german newspapers in these days...about Blackwater CEO as a self-appointed "Christian crusader"..etc etc....real facts behind it?

Robert

This is a different kettle of fish. I don't have much trouble believing that some in Blackwater, some in the military, and quite possibly Mr. Bush think of themselves as servants of the Christian God. Going into battle with the belief that God is on your side is not unknown today or any day. Myself, being non-religious, I would find a different formulation but surely if I were to be in battle I would like to think my effort and maybe my life served a purpose. Maybe even a Purpose. Ranting on about Gog and Magog is different, and I strongly suspect my religious friends would see it as different as well.

I really hope someone from France chimes in on this. It's not just that I doubt Bush said it, I also doubt that Chirac said that he said it.

[Fluffy]

Aberlour10, on Aug 7 2009, 05:37 PM, said:

There is a similar story in german newspapers in these days...about Blackwater CEO as a self-appointed "Christian crusader"..etc etc....real facts behind it?

Robert

Yeah the crusades!, Go christians, kill all those jews and atheists!.

Oh wait, this war wasn't about them was it?