[sathyab]

This was an awkward hand for 2/1 at one table. I'd like to hear how people would handle it.

Scoring: IMP

1h-1nt-3h-3nt

---

At our table opponents had no problems at all. A ♠ lead, small, small, 8 drove out declarer's ♠Q. He crossed to dummy in ♦s, successfully finessed ♣s and ran it for seven tricks and claimed twelve in a hurry,

Our teammates started the auction 1h-1nt-2h. How do you think NS should the hand now ? They were not playing 1M-3X as invite, but even if you were, isn't this hand a bit too heavy for that sequence ? Ideally you'd like to be in 3nt opposite a non-minimum partner with a doubleton ♣, else take a shot at 5♣. Any way to explore these two contracts ?

[Echognome]

If we're playing jump shifts to a minor as invites, then if we judge our hand to be too heavy for an invite, it's obviously a GF. I personally don't view our hand, with a heart void, to be a GF, so then I would start with 3♣ invitational. In my personal methods, we don't allow 3 card support for that bid, so North, with his weak trump spots, might try 3NT.

If we're not playing invitational jump shifts, then I would need to know what we are playing. As an example, are we playing 2/1 GF except rebid of a minor? In that case, then that's my obvious choice. North can then rebid 2♥ and over our 3♣ call, he can try 3NT.

I can't answer what else I would do until I know what we are playing.

[sathyab]

Echognome, on Aug 4 2009, 11:57 AM, said:

If we're playing jump shifts to a minor as invites, then if we judge our hand to be too heavy for an invite, it's obviously a GF. I personally don't view our hand, with a heart void, to be a GF, so then I would start with 3♣ invitational. In my personal methods, we don't allow 3 card support for that bid, so North, with his weak trump spots, might try 3NT.

If we're not playing invitational jump shifts, then I would need to know what we are playing. As an example, are we playing 2/1 GF except rebid of a minor? In that case, then that's my obvious choice. North can then rebid 2♥ and over our 3♣ call, he can try 3NT.

I can't answer what else I would do until I know what we are playing.

Not quite sure what their methods were in this context. But this hand would be really tough if you were playing 3♣ as Bergen for instance and all 2-over-1 sequences over a major opening as GF. So let's assume they were playing that.

[Echognome]

Sathya,

Fair enough for a question. Unfortunately, I do not have enough familiarity with the methods to know how they bid these types of hands. I guess they have to choose whether 3♣ shows this hand or the same hand shape with QJTxxxx in clubs instead. Perhaps they pass 2♥ on that hand?

-Gnome

[TimG]

sathyab, on Aug 4 2009, 11:51 AM, said:

This was an awkward hand for 2/1 at one table.

I think it is awkward if you have no way of showing an invitational hand with clubs.

If 1M-3♣ is Bergen, and 1M-2♣-2M-3♣ is GF, then I'd want 1M-1N-2M-3♣ to be invitational. With a weak hand and clubs, responder would have to give up on improving the partscore.

[benlessard]

1H----1nt-----2d------2S-------3h-------3S--------3Nt

2S is good D raise.
3S is showing half a stopper.

[nigel_k]

While game could be terrible opposite some openers, this is not an invitational hand as you want to be in game opposite most minimums. I'd be very nervous if it went 1♥-3♣(invit)-pass.

Prefer to bid 2♣ game forcing and hope for the best.

[TimG]

sathyab, on Aug 4 2009, 11:51 AM, said:

They were not playing 1M-3X as invite, but even if you were, isn't this hand a bit too heavy for that sequence ?

If it's too heavy for an invite, doesn't that mean it's good enough for a game force?

[Jlall]

Alternatively you can play 1H 1N 2H 2S shows an weak in a minor or both minors. Partner bids 2N with better diamonds, and 3C with better clubs.

I guess the point is that yes, if you have no way to bid inv hands in a minor in your system you will have an awkward time when that hand type comes up!

[sathyab]

Jlall, on Aug 4 2009, 06:33 PM, said:

Alternatively you can play 1H 1N 2H 2S shows an weak in a minor or both minors. Partner bids 2N with better diamonds, and 3C with better clubs.

I guess the point is that yes, if you have no way to bid inv hands in a minor in your system you will have an awkward time when that hand type comes up!

That requires some prior discussion and it doesn't work when partner opens ♠s and rebids it. As 3m over 1M-1nt-2M in "standard" 2/1 is a sign-off in the minor, you have to do something different. Some people might treat this as close enough to force game, hoping that it won't be a total misfit. It's not the first time that there's no inconvenient bid for a hand given your agreements, nor should you expect it to be the last one. If playing 3m as invitational over 1M solved all problems in this family of hands, I'm sure everyone would be playing it. There must be a reason why they are not.

Undiscussed, 2nt is probably another choice available to you, in that it's right about the strength of your hand if not the distribution.

[WesleyC]

"Standard" 2/1 uses either 1M-3m INV (Hardy style) or 1M - 2m - 2M - 3m INV (Lawrence style).

It sounds like your team-mates just haven't fully discussed their agreements. Its not really possible to play Bergen raises AND strictly forcing 2/1s (without some clever work around) or else you've got no way to bid hands like this one.

[Fluffy]

Oh my... reminds me there was a time where I handled this hands 1NT then 2NT lol.