[mich-b]

Scoring: IMP

1♥-1♠-2♥-2♠-
?

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Pass or 3♥?
And more generally , when do you compete to the 3 level with 8 trumps (playing IMPs)?

[Jlall]

3H

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

3H.

Since your question is basically a LoTT question, here a LoTT answer:

A corrolary of the LoTT is, that is ok to bid 3H over 2S with only 8 trumps.

If we have 8 trumps and they have 8 trumps, this means there are 16
total tricks out there, i.e. everyone will make their contract.
If you bid 3 over 2, this just means, that you will be -1, being green,
even if they double you, you would be better off (-50/-100 vs. -110),
being red you are -200 vs. 110, that is, if they double you, which at
IMPs is a risky business.

So at least the LoTT says, that you should "always" bid 3H, unless you
have lots of neg. adjustemnt factors, which would favor a pass,
adjustment factors would be strength in their suit.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[the hog]

Pass.

[shevek]

I wonder if you are playing some sort of Bergen, with 2♥ denying 4 trumps.

Anyway, 3♥ looks normal enough here with no spade honour and very high ODR (offence to defence ratio)
Give partner Ax, Jxx, xxxx, xxxx
and you will fail while they make 9 tricks.
Another useful card opposite could mean 9 for you and 8 for them.

[Hanoi5]

I'd bid 3♥ on the quality of my trumps and expecting partner to have only 2 spades (at most). I also have a maximum and being imp's I don't think they'll double me.

[se12sam]

A non-expert answer:
    1. If my suit/s are good, I bid one more (even with 8-card fit)
    2. If I hold Aces instead of Kings & Queens, I bid one more
I have never fully read the Bergen book, but this probably relates to adjustments for suit purity (or some such thing he talks about)

I bid 3♥ on this hand, especially because it is IMPs

[Fluffy]

3♥.

When do you compete at the 3 level with 8 trups?

When my ODR is high, by having all the strenght in my suit is the excuse this time.

Impossible on this sequence but if I had 4cards in partner's minor opening suit it would also be a good excuse.

Having a 54 with concentrated honnors also.

with any 55 I would normally try for game, not compete.

[ochinko]

Even a LoTT freak like me bids 3♥ here in order to protect his honors, as they are not worth much if ♠ are trumps.

[pooltuna]

I will let partner show me a 4th ♥. That being said I really have no qualms with the 3♥ bidders. LoTT and the ODR are definite reasons to go on. The V vs not is the main negative.

[mtvesuvius]

3♥ for me

[Phil]

3♥. This hand is just too pure and we aren't getting doubled at IMPs with these trump.

For pass to be right, both 2♠ and 3♥ need to be going down.

[Cascade]

The biggest problem i have had with competing to 3♥ with this sort of hand is when the opponents turn up with only three trumps and we have lots of spade losers.

Nevertheless I am a 3♥ bidder. Ordinarily the lack of spade values mean that partner's honours will be working for us.

[shevek]

Cascade, on Aug 4 2009, 11:35 PM, said:

The biggest problem i have had with competing to 3♥ with this sort of hand is when the opponents turn up with only three trumps and we have lots of spade losers.

Nevertheless I am a 3♥ bidder.  Ordinarily the lack of spade values mean that partner's honours will be working for us.

seven?

[the hog]

shevek, on Aug 5 2009, 03:00 PM, said:

Cascade, on Aug 4 2009, 11:35 PM, said:

The biggest problem i have had with competing to 3♥ with this sort of hand is when the opponents turn up with only three trumps and we have lots of spade losers.

Nevertheless I am a 3♥ bidder.  Ordinarily the lack of spade values mean that partner's honours will be working for us.

seven?

Seven is unlikely, but certainly possible. Overcall on a good 4, raise on three and ruffing value. It's happened before and it will happen again.