[cherdanno]

I was watching only a few boards of the vugraph of the final, and it contained a very interesting play problem (from memory, as I can find hand records online - I may have the dealer wrong but I am confident about vulnerability and most spots; it was one of the last boards of the 3rd segment):

Scoring: IMP

(P) 1♣* (3♦)
3♥ (P) 4♥ - AP

---

You get the lead of the ♦ 9.
(You are Berkowitz, 1♣ was precision and 3♦ natural by Jansma. In case it matters, you are down by a lot with 16 boards left, so 3♦ probably won't be supercrazy.)

[akhare]

The hand reconstruction seems to be fairly accurate. I thought that LC's line was very good if not excelent -- as I recollect, A♦, K♠, A♠, ♠ ruff (RHO discarding).

[gnasher]

If hearts are 4-1 but spades 3-3, I can afford to draw trumps before touching spades - three top trumps, ruff the spades good, concede a trump. Can I cope with hearts 4=1 and spades 4=2?

Suppose that I play three rounds of spades, ruffing as West discards, then two top hearts ending in dummy, finding LHO with four. Then:
- If I play a diamond, they have several ways to beat me. eg RHO plays low, LHO ruffs and plays back the last trump, or RHO wins and switches to a club.
- If I play a spade, discarding a club, LHO wins and plays back a club. Now I can't both cash a spade and lead a diamond up.
- If I ruff another spade, I can't see any hope for a tenth trick.
So that seems not to work.

Maybe a diamond at trick two is better? RHO wins and switches to a club, which I duck. I win the next club and play three rounds of spades, ruffing, then ♥K, ♦Q throwing a club, regardless of whether LHO ruffs. If he ruffs and plays a third round of clubs, I have to guess whether RHO is 2272 or 2173.
This line also risks going down if RHO is 3271 - after ruffing the second club he plays a diamond, ruffed by LHO. I can survive 2371, though, because there's a black-suit squeeze.

Neither of these plans seems that attractive.

[wclass___]

gnasher, on Aug 4 2009, 03:40 AM, said:

Maybe a diamond at trick two is better? RHO wins and switches to a club, which I duck. I win the next club and play three rounds of spades, ruffing, then ♥K, ♦Q throwing a club, regardless of whether LHO ruffs.

Duck seems needless. When West ruffs your ♦Q, he will play two rounds of ♣ anyway.

I think that this is the best line.

[y66]

I like akhare's line but HK before playing spades.

[Fluffy]

ruffing spades in hand looks best, the only problem is how many top hearts to cahs, I think 1 is best as y66 said. ♦A, ♥K and if nothing interesting happens ♠K+[AP]A+♠.

[gnasher]

y66, on Aug 4 2009, 02:53 PM, said:

I like akhare's line but HK before playing spades.

Fluffy said:

ruffing spades in hand looks best, the only problem is how many top hearts to cahs, I think 1 is best as y66 said. ♦A, ♥K and if nothing interesting happens ♠K+[AP]A+♠.

On what layouts does this gain over simply drawing trumps?

[y66]

If I draw trumps and LHO shows up with 4 of them, I think we need spades 33 to make this.

[Fluffy]

gnasher, on Aug 4 2009, 02:47 PM, said:

y66, on Aug 4 2009, 02:53 PM, said:

I like akhare's line but HK before playing spades.

Fluffy said:

ruffing spades in hand looks best, the only problem is how many top hearts to cahs, I think 1 is best as y66 said. ♦A, ♥K and if nothing interesting happens ♠K+[AP]A+♠.

On what layouts does this gain over simply drawing trumps?

Seems like I was planning on 11 tricks O_o

but probably there are layouts where this gains, Keeping ♥A when spades 3-3 and hearts 4-1 will let you keep control to discard your clubs in time.

If LHO has 4 spades and 4 hearts I don't see a way to make it.

[TimG]

Fluffy, on Aug 4 2009, 11:17 AM, said:

If LHO has 4 spades and 4 hearts I don't see a way to make it.

How about:

♦A, ♥K, ♠K, ♠A, ♠ ruff, ♥A, ♠ ruff, ♦Q?

I think you always get three tricks from this position, either i) two ruffs and the ♣A, or ii) ♣A, ♠8 and a trump.

[Fluffy]

TimG, on Aug 4 2009, 04:30 PM, said:

Fluffy, on Aug 4 2009, 11:17 AM, said:

If LHO has 4 spades and 4 hearts I don't see a way to make it.

How about:

♦A, ♥K, ♠K, ♠A, ♠ ruff, ♥A, ♠ ruff, ♦Q?

I think you always get three tricks from this position, either i) two ruffs and the ♣A, or ii) ♣A, ♠8 and a trump.

East wins ♦K and plays a club honnor, when you win in dummy you play 5th spade wich gets ruffed and the 4th heart comes back, you score: 2♠, 5♥, 1♦, 1♣, or lose 2♦, 1♣, 1 ruff.

[cherdanno]

TimG, on Aug 4 2009, 11:30 AM, said:

Fluffy, on Aug 4 2009, 11:17 AM, said:

If LHO has 4 spades and 4 hearts I don't see a way to make it.

How about:

♦A, ♥K, ♠K, ♠A, ♠ ruff, ♥A, ♠ ruff, ♦Q?

I think you always get three tricks from this position, either i) two ruffs and the ♣A, or ii) ♣A, ♠8 and a trump.

That does not seem right. You are left with ♥Q ♦x ♣xxx in hand, and ♠8 ♥x ♣AT9 in hand. RHO wins ♦A and plays a club. If you win and play a spade, LHO ruffs and plays a trump. If you duck, opponents keep playing clubs.

[TimG]

Fluffy, on Aug 4 2009, 11:40 AM, said:

TimG, on Aug 4 2009, 04:30 PM, said:

Fluffy, on Aug 4 2009, 11:17 AM, said:

If LHO has 4 spades and 4 hearts I don't see a way to make it.

How about:

♦A, ♥K, ♠K, ♠A, ♠ ruff, ♥A, ♠ ruff, ♦Q?

I think you always get three tricks from this position, either i) two ruffs and the ♣A, or ii) ♣A, ♠8 and a trump.

East wins ♦K and plays a club honnor, when you win in dummy you play 5th spade wich gets ruffed and the 4th heart comes back, you score: 2♠, 5♥, 1♦, 1♣, or lose 2♦, 1♣, 1 ruff.

OK...how about:

♦A, ♥K, ♠K, ♠A, ♠ ruff, ♦Q?

I assume east wins. And, returns what?

[gnasher]

TimG, on Aug 4 2009, 05:50 PM, said:

♦A, ♥K, ♠K, ♠A, ♠ ruff, ♦Q?

I assume east wins.  And, returns what?

A club. Then, I assume, you ruff a spade and lead your last diamond. West ruffs with ♥8 or ♥9 and you have to guess the trump layout. If you know that they're 4-1, you discard a club and score either a club ruff or the long spade. However, that loses when East is 2722 and can overruff dummy's ♥7.

This line seems to be equivalent to leading a diamond from dummy at trick two.

[TimG]

gnasher, on Aug 4 2009, 12:52 PM, said:

TimG, on Aug 4 2009, 05:50 PM, said:

♦A, ♥K, ♠K, ♠A, ♠ ruff, ♦Q?

I assume east wins.  And, returns what?

A club. Then, I assume, you ruff a spade and lead your last diamond. West ruffs with ♥8 or ♥9 and you have to guess the trump layout. If you know that they're 4-1, you discard a club and score either a club ruff or the long spade. However, that loses when East is 2722 and can overruff dummy's ♥7.

This line seems to be equivalent to leading a diamond from dummy at trick two.

I'm not sure it's the right line, but it is a way to make when you know west has 4 hearts and 4 spades.

[ceeb]

I'm surprised at the unanimity of winning the ♦A at trick one. This in effect squanders a dummy entry (You feel it when late in the hand you cannot both force LHO with a good spade from dummy AND lead a diamond from dummy to establish the Q.) so right or wrong it is a somewhat unnatural play.

Ducking is the convenient way to establish the ♦Q on the actual lie -- 2164 distribution with RHO, though it loses when RHO is 2371. It survives when LHO has 3 trumps -- if LHO ruffs our 10th trick we get it back with a club ruff in dummy -- or whenever spades break.

[NickRW]

ceeb, on Aug 5 2009, 01:28 AM, said:

I'm surprised at the unanimity of winning the ♦A at trick one. This in effect squanders a dummy entry (You feel it when late in the hand you cannot both force LHO with a good spade from dummy AND lead a diamond from dummy to establish the Q.) so right or wrong it is a somewhat unnatural play.

Ducking is the convenient way to establish the ♦Q on the actual lie -- 2164 distribution with RHO, though it loses when RHO is 2371. It survives when LHO has 3 trumps -- if LHO ruffs our 10th trick we get it back with a club ruff in dummy -- or whenever spades break.

This somewhat depends on the weight you attach in the OP to "you are down by a lot with 16 boards left, so 3♦ probably won't be supercrazy" especially given that your opponent was certainly missing A and Q of his suit - and might have been missing one of the other top 5. These sorts of variables are rather hard to ponder.

Nick