[Oren Goren]

Given a 12-15 Total Points 2C/2D/2H, is cheapest suit response legal as asking for opener to rebid in cheapest 2nd suit? [2NT shows relay suit and no cheaper suit call.]

General purpose, not forcing to game, not invitational, but responder's rebid could be (or not) a force?

I can't tell reading either the GCC or Mid-Chart.

Or, since the bid ASKS for suit, is it an "asking bid" and not a "relay"?

Asking is how I think of it but some insist it is a relay.

Isn't a relay just a tempo to put the move back on the other partner?

Thanks!

[hrothgar]

The bids are (unquestionably) legal

Item 7 in the GCC specifically allows

Quote

ARTIFICIAL AND CONVENTIONAL CALLS after strong (15+ HCP),
forcing opening bids and after opening bids of two clubs or higher. (For
this classification, by partnership agreement, weak two-bids must be
within a range of 7 HCP and the suit must contain at least five cards – See
#7 under DISALLOWED.)

As for the relay issue:

The ACBL has banned relay systems, not relays.
Furthermore, the ACBL has adopted a rather strange definition of relay system.

Under definitions, the GCC states

Quote

3. A sequence of relay bids is defined as a system if, after an opening of one
of a suit, it is started prior to opener’s rebid.

Simple put, if your opening bid is 1NT or higher, you can do whatever you want without worrying about the relay system restriction.

[Oren Goren]

Thanks!

I read that whole C&C Committee thing last night after posting the question.

My main gripe - it diluted the heck out of my WELOS - was the demand for 8+HCP. We open(ed) 8-11 16+Total Points/Goren 4+.

I don't know hold old you are, but in the early 70s the ACBL defined natural, treatment, and conventional very clearly, and then more than a decade later would still rule that NTs by position were conventions even though actually natural.

Schizophrenia!

Uncontracted regards!
oren

[PrecisionL]

Oren Goren, on Dec 24 2009, 03:48 AM, said:

Given a 12-15 Total Points 2C/2D/2H, is cheapest suit response legal as asking for opener to rebid in cheapest 2nd suit?  [2NT shows relay suit and no cheaper suit call.]

General purpose, not forcing to game, not invitational, but responder's rebid could be (or not) a force?

I can't tell reading either the GCC or Mid-Chart.

It is NOT clear. ACBL (rulings@acbl.org) told me I could not use transfer bids (weak, invitational, or strong) over a Precision 2♣ opener even though I pointed out rule 6. (Responses and Rebids, GCC)

However, you can use 2NT as an artificial inquiry to a 2 bid of any strength.

Larry

P.S. Thus, they have interpreted rule 6 to mean strong hands if 2♣ or higher.

[Oren Goren]

PrecisionL, on Dec 24 2009, 03:10 PM, said:

Oren Goren, on Dec 24 2009, 03:48 AM, said:

Given a 12-15 Total Points 2C/2D/2H, is cheapest suit response legal as asking for opener to rebid in cheapest 2nd suit?  [2NT shows relay suit and no cheaper suit call.]

General purpose, not forcing to game, not invitational, but responder's rebid could be (or not) a force?

I can't tell reading either the GCC or Mid-Chart.

It is NOT clear. ACBL (rulings@acbl.org) told me I could not use transfer bids (weak, invitational, or strong) over a Precision 2♣ opener even though I pointed out rule 6. (Responses and Rebids, GCC)

Larry

P.S. Thus, they have interpreted rule 6 to mean strong hands if 2♣ or higher.

Thanks, both of you.

It was because of the rule's sloppy structure that I was unsure.

The rational reading is as hrothgar said, but the ACBL's indifference to good English made me afraid the relay was illegal.


Who'da thunk George W. Bush had written the charts and was in charge of interpretation?