[cRi cRi]

Scoring: IMP

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The bidding went :

1♠ 2♣ P 2♥
3♠ ALL PASS

2♥ was invitational but not Forcing. other options would be 3♥ or 2♠

3♠ went down 1 and 4♥ is cold

Who is to blame, North or south ? Or both ?

[the hog]

Why didn't south bid 4H over 3S? I understand North's pass with the C void, but not South's pass.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I think. it is close, bascially the 3S bid forced you to make a decision,
and you got it wrong.
South would have certainly bid 3H over 3S, but I can understand,
why he passed 3S.
North has a Max. for his 2H bid, make the hand slightly stronger and
North will force to game.

In the end you have nearly no wastage (QJ in clubs) and prime values,
so I would say, next bord.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[mich-b]

About 85% of the blame to South , who had an obvious 4♥ bid.
About 15% of the blame to North , who would to better IMO to bid 3♥, showing 6+♥ and GF, even though sometimes there would be no makeable game.

[Trinidad]

South' spades and hearts could have been switched. Given his nice heart support South should accept any game invitation, despite being minimal in high cards.

Rik

[Cascade]

Over a constructive 2♥ I bid 4♥ with the south cards in this competition. If I don't think I am good enough for that then I am making a mistake coming into the auction in the first place. South knows about the heart fit so south must make the tough decision.

Only the club void in the north hand makes it unclear for north to take a stronger action.

[Codo]

I think 4 Heart with the south hand should be automatic.

2 Heart was very conservative too, but this was by far the lesser fault.

[pooltuna]

The_Hog, on Jul 28 2009, 04:52 AM, said:

Why didn't south bid 4H over 3S? I understand North's pass with the C void, but not South's pass.

I agree with these sentiments and this is also why I play 2♥ is forcing in these auctions.

[cRi cRi]

Reverse South ♠ ans ♥ and this is why you don't want to play it as forcing

[pooltuna]

cRi cRi, on Jul 28 2009, 08:54 AM, said:

Reverse South ♠ ans ♥ and this is why you don't want to play it as forcing

Well if that is the case the blame clearly goes to system as South has no reason to think 4♥ has play...In retrospect the fault, based on new system information, becomes 100% North as he had to make a forcing bid which is clearly 2♠

[Fluffy]

North 100% (If I was a journalist 200% I'd say). He has GF values and let the opponents play an undoubled partscore, this is nuts. How can you blame south who already overbid with 2♣?

It is true that if south made the right bid (Pass), or the second most right bid (double) you would be at 4♥ easilly, but he oculd also had bid 3♣ rather than 2 wich would be horrible. All in all he showed more strength than he has and yet north allowed opponents to play undoubled partscore. Did I say that this is nuts?.

[cRi cRi]

The hand might be a complete missfit and East having strong ♠ from North point of view. Why would you double then ?
I totaly disagree with you fluffy. Not on the part that is it North to blame, maybe It is, I actually don't know this. But I really dont think that letting opps play 3♠ Undoubled is the point, Double would not be penalty anyway, you have no way from north hand to play 3♠ doubled and I don't think you want that. Maybe you can double 3♠ to show maximum hand with short ♠, but this is not what you have and you are 90% likely to hear 4♣.

[WesleyC]

2C is clear, 2H is clear (and shows good judgment), SOUTH'S pass over 3S is no good. With a fit and a singleton spade, I'd bid 4H.

If you're going to overcall lightly, you can't make up for it later by passing once you've found a fit.

After 3S P P, North has good reason to think 3S is going down (because South has denied a heart fit *cough cough*). He would like to double for penalties but can't so he passes. You can't win them all.

<edited to clarify that it's south's fault...>

[cherdanno]

Yeah how can North not double 3♠?

[cRi cRi]

cherdanno, on Jul 28 2009, 10:26 AM, said:

Yeah how can North not double 3♠?

For the reasons I mentioned 2 post ago

[bid_em_up]

cRi cRi, on Jul 28 2009, 08:54 AM, said:

Reverse South ♠ ans ♥ and this is why you don't want to play it as forcing

Ok, so call it very highly constructive then, in which case South has an automatic 4♥ bid.

[pooltuna]

Fluffy, on Jul 28 2009, 09:41 AM, said:

North 100% (If I was a journalist 200% I'd say). He has GF values and let the opponents play an undoubled partscore, this is nuts. How can you blame south who already overbid with 2♣?

It is true that if south made the right bid (Pass), or the second most right bid (double) you would be at 4♥ easilly, but he oculd also had bid 3♣ rather than 2 wich would be horrible. All in all he showed more strength than he has and yet north allowed opponents to play undoubled partscore. Did I say that this is nuts?.

I prefer 2♣ to X or pass. It is imperative to compete and add noise into the opponents auction, while this gives information it more importantly makes their auction less precise and gives your partner reason to add to their difficulties.

[Fluffy]

cRi cRi, on Jul 28 2009, 03:28 PM, said:

cherdanno, on Jul 28 2009, 10:26 AM, said:

Yeah how can North not double 3♠?

For the reasons I mentioned 2 post ago

Wich are wrong , double is takeout sure. But this is NO missfit unless partner has something like ♠Qx, you are having Axxx opposite x most of the time wich is huge offensively, sure those club honnors do not fit, but as long as partner has 2 hearts (Extremelly likelly) you will be ok in 4♥.

Even with a ***** hand like x x Axxx AKxxxxx you are fighting to win 4♥.


But partner should pass missfiting hands.


to Pooltuna: if you wanna disturb then you would rather bid 3♣. I know, you like the light/intermediate overcalls, good for you!

Best wishes when you have a real hand and have to bid twice to show it.

[zheddh]

As an aside, What would South's DBL imply here?

If DBL here means something like "Partner, i would like to bid 4H. But just in case, you have wastage in spades, lets defend", would DBL be a good bid?

[Cascade]

zheddh, on Jul 29 2009, 06:24 AM, said:

As an aside, What would South's DBL imply here?

If DBL here means something like "Partner, i would like to bid 4H. But just in case, you have wastage in spades, lets defend", would DBL be a good bid?

Maybe but then you would have no decent bid with a host of other hands without primary heart support but with extra values.