[campboy]

Scoring: IMP

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Uh, how do you get an auction in this thing? It went 2♦ - pass - 2♥ - 2♠ - pass - pass - 3♥ - pass* - pass - 3♠ out. 2♦ was alerted as multi, 2♥ not alerted but presumably p/c. The pass over 3♥was agreed as slow. N/S didn't bother to call the TD after the hand.

Would you have done? What ruling do you think he should make?

[karlson]

Seems like we need a poll for the east hand? Without one, pass clearly seems like a logical alternative (though I would bid) so I would roll it back to 3h= (3h+1 seems too generous, I think the defense is not very hard).

[helene_t]

Yeah, pass is a LA.

[FrancesHinden]

I recognise this hand. We must have been in the same room at the same time...

Pass is a LA for East.
Bidding is suggested by the hesitation.
Seems fairly easy. (Although of course the LA is only my opinion, this is where a poll might come in handy)

Quote

(3h+1 seems too generous, I think the defense is not very hard).

4H by South is cold. If you were confident from the auction and start to the defence (e.g. top spade, underlead of the spade, diamond through) that the DK was wrong you might even make it single dummy.

[campboy]

FrancesHinden, on Jul 21 2009, 03:38 PM, said:

I recognise this hand. We must have been in the same room at the same time...

Indeed. You seemed to be doing rather better than us

I guess this one really wasn't as close as I thought. I was surprised that oppo didn't want a ruling, but we lost the match anyway so I don't feel too guilty.

[karlson]

FrancesHinden said:

4H by South is cold. If you were confident from the auction and start to the defence (e.g. top spade, underlead of the spade, diamond through) that the DK was wrong you might even make it single dummy.

Good point, I didn't look at it closely enough.

[NickRW]

Perhaps I am missing something, but it doesn't look cold to me on two rounds of spades finishing in the East hand and then a diamond switch.

Nick

[campboy]

Win the ace, take two rounds of trumps and two of clubs, then exit with the ♦Q.

[bluejak]

They are not reaching 4♥, it is imps, so give them a weighted score. Say

...70% of 3♥ +1, NS +170
+ 30% of 3♥ =, NS +140

There will only be an imp at stake, so careful analysis is not required.

People who live in a Law 12C1E jurisdiction, or even a Law 12C1C jurisdiction where weighted scores are extremely rare, may be surprised to learn that weighted scores make adjusting far easier and thus much quicker, because total accuracy in analysis does not matter.

[NickRW]

campboy, on Jul 22 2009, 06:52 AM, said:

Win the ace, take two rounds of trumps and two of clubs, then exit with the ♦Q.

OK - that is cold - double dummy.

[Codo]

NickRW, on Jul 22 2009, 10:06 PM, said:

campboy, on Jul 22 2009, 06:52 AM, said:

Win the ace, take two rounds of trumps and two of clubs, then exit with the ♦Q.

OK - that is cold - double dummy.

This is not just double dummy, it is the best chance anyway.

[NickRW]

Codo, on Jul 23 2009, 06:49 AM, said:

NickRW, on Jul 22 2009, 10:06 PM, said:

campboy, on Jul 22 2009, 06:52 AM, said:

Win the ace, take two rounds of trumps and two of clubs, then exit with the ♦Q.

OK - that is cold - double dummy.

This is not just double dummy, it is the best chance anyway.

Yes - well - whatever anyway - my point was that it wasn't "cold" - which to me means, if not "off the top", then can be played simply just by pulling trumps, driving out aces and other such simple plays - not ones that depend on the cards laying a certain way in the opps hands - even if that be the only reasonable play declarer has got.

Nick

[skjaeran]

Pass is obviously a logical alternative to bidding 3♠ here, and bidding is clearly indicated by the hesitation.

Thus it's obvious to adjust to 3♥. I'd adjust to 3♥+1, making an overtrick is really obvious.

[MFA]

I would like to see the result of a poll. I'm not convinced that there clearly will be enough passers. Are any of you "pass is a LA"-people passers yourselves?

[LH2650]

For better or worse, with the transition to BBO, there is a new feature available - polling! I wanted to see this on Bridgetalk, but never suggested it. Perhaps we should start using it.

[campboy]

Polling was available in bridgetalk, though only in certain subforums. So if people wanted a poll for a ruling they would start a separate thread in "The Bridge Table" for the poll.

[FrancesHinden]

MFA, on Jul 25 2009, 11:13 PM, said:

I would like to see the result of a poll. I'm not convinced that there clearly will be enough passers. Are any of you "pass is a LA"-people passers yourselves?

Jeffrey says he would never pass. We might need to know more about the player's peers.

[NickRW]

Well I am probably a passer without the pause - I'd reason that opps have shown no strength and we've pushed them up a level from where they wanted to play. Granted, my hand is pretty weak which makes partner reasonably strong - never the less I'd think passing was at least as good a chance to take a plus on the board. With the pause I think I really have to pass as bidding is something that would have crossed my mind anyway.

Having said this, I think South clearly underbid with the 2♥ relay - an opening hand and 3 hearts would make me choose 2♠. The interesting question for me is whether I would risk 2NT in response. From that point of view E/W could argue that they have been misinformed (or could if I was in the South seat anyway) - this would make 3♠ from east much more attractive.

Nick

Quick later PS. I just asked my kids what they would respond on the South hand - they both came out with choosing the stronger 2NT relay. So, legally NS may have a case - morally I don't think they do.