[Hanoi5]

All white you hold:

x
Axx
AQ8xxx
KJx

Partner opens:

1NT 2♠*
3♣* 3♦
3NT ???

Your 2♠ asks about minors, partner has at least 4♣'s, 2 or 3♦'s (most probably 2) and minimum HCP, what do you bid? (You showed interest in slam and at least 5♦'s).

[the hog]

Pass. Haven't I said it all? Why paint the same picture twice?

[P_Marlowe]

Pass, wtp?

Summarizing your post - we have at best 30HCP
and with a high probability a bad 8 card fit.
Why should I move?

With kind regards
Marlowe

[gnasher]

I wouldn't give up on slam yet. Partner wouldn't have cue-bid with QJx Kxxx Kx AQxx or KJx Qxx Kx AQxxx.

I'd bid 4♣, presumably showing three-card support, and see what happens. If partner signs off in 4NT over that, I'll pass. If he cue-bids a major I think that should set clubs as trumps, and I'll drive slam in clubs. I hope that with my first example above he'll bid 4♦.

[se12sam]

Question for Hanoi5:
How does your cue-bidding work. If you were to bid 4♣ with the South hand, will all subsequent bids be 1st round controls or either 1st/2nd round controls.

I can think of a few ideal hands where 6♦ has good chances. But the key in your method is whether you can bring the bidding to a halt in 4NT (with a clear understanding it is to play). If you can, I'd bid 4♣ as precursor to cue bidding.

[Hanoi5]

1st/2nd round controls. To 4♣ partner would bid 4♥.

[se12sam]

Hanoi5, on Jul 16 2009, 11:28 AM, said:

1st/2nd round controls. To 4♣ partner would bid 4♥.

I think slam is tough to bid with any certainty. If I bid 4♠ now, I cannot be sure what 4NT by partner would mean vs 5♣ by partner.
There is another interesting point in the bidding: If partner bids 3♥/3♠ after the 3♦, is he showing a 4-card suit? If there is such an agreement, a refusal to bid 3M will indicate a 3-3-2-5 hand.

In any case, having hoped that partner cues 4♦ first, I'll give up after 4♥ and bid 4NT (to play, I hope).

[kenrexford]

se12sam, on Jul 16 2009, 07:04 AM, said:

Hanoi5, on Jul 16 2009, 11:28 AM, said:

1st/2nd round controls. To 4♣ partner would bid 4♥.

I think slam is tough to bid with any certainty. If I bid 4♠ now, I cannot be sure what 4NT by partner would mean vs 5♣ by partner.
There is another interesting point in the bidding: If partner bids 3♥/3♠ after the 3♦, is he showing a 4-card suit? If there is such an agreement, a refusal to bid 3M will indicate a 3-3-2-5 hand.

In any case, having hoped that partner cues 4♦ first, I'll give up after 4♥ and bid 4NT (to play, I hope).

I would have expected a different but related idea, where Opener bids 3♥ (lower-ranking major) with a fifth club or 3♠ (higher) with diamond interest but unwilling to go past 3NT (or better).

[Phil]

I'm not passing 3N so the choices are 4♣ and 4♦.

4♣ really sounds like a self-cue with my trump better than what they are. I also think it demands a cue.

4♦ merely suggests slam. Partner is allowed to retreat to 4N (or 5♦) with a hand that doesn't want to cooperate.

[jdonn]

Gnasher's examples convinced me you can't pass, especially because I still want to be in slam in both cases if you reverse the majors. 4♣ it is as the best description.

Regarding above points, it seems obvious to me that partner bidding a major over 3♦ is either coming in diamonds or weak in the other major.

[ONEferBRID]

At most you have an eight card fit in Cl.
At worst you have an eight card fit in Diam.
Just bid straight Gerber initially ( 1NT - 4C! ).
If you you are off 2 Aces stop in 4NT, otherwise bid 6D.

[aguahombre]

OP gives 2S as the systemic start, so this is off the subject. But is this hand strong enough for Walsh relay?

[jdonn]

ONEferBRID, on Jul 16 2009, 10:39 AM, said:

At most you have an eight card fit in Cl.
At worst you have an eight card fit in Diam.
Just bid straight Gerber initially ( 1NT - 4C! ).
If you you are off 2 Aces stop in 4NT, otherwise bid 6D.

Do you have a bus to catch? How will you feel if you are off one ace and partner has xx of diamonds?

[Phil]

aguahombre, on Jul 16 2009, 10:54 AM, said:

OP gives 2S as the systemic start, so this is off the subject. But is this hand strong enough for Walsh relay?

Yes.

[aguahombre]

Phil, on Jul 16 2009, 10:58 AM, said:

aguahombre, on Jul 16 2009, 10:54 AM, said:

OP gives 2S as the systemic start, so this is off the subject. But is this hand strong enough for Walsh relay?

Yes.

So, if opener has xx in Diamonds as Jdonn suggests, I can watch pard play 3NT and still catch the bus.

[benlessard]

Ive assuming that the 2S denies a 4 card major therefore likely to have 3 clubs , so imo partner should strive to make a cue-bid with Kx in D and AQxxx in clubs and a M king. However i believe here that 3D is halfway between slammish and looking for the best game so partner 3Nt is showing wasted values in both majors. I can see hands where 4Nt/5D goes down so im more tempted for pass than bid on but its close.

[kenrexford]

jdonn, on Jul 16 2009, 10:17 AM, said:

Regarding above points, it seems obvious to me that partner bidding a major over 3♦ is either coming in diamonds or weak in the other major.

Interesting. My initial thought is often that calls like this often do agree diamonds and start cues, possible probes. However, often times strain is still in question, as it is here, where strain must be resolved first. The sequence demands NT or a minor, so I think diamonds are in contention but clubs also remain on the table. Were clubs eliminated, then 3M should definitely be probe or cue, but is that the case here?

[ONEferBRID]

Hanoi5, on Jul 16 2009, 04:49 AM, said:

All white you hold:

x
Axx
AQ8xxx
KJx

Partner opens:

1NT 2♠*
3♣* 3♦
3NT ???

2♠ asks about minors......

Why isn't this hand treated a "single" long minor suit, slammish ?
In your NT structure, do you have an initial response to show that?
If so, Opener can support with as little as Honor-x doubleton.

[aguahombre]

ONEferBRID, on Jul 18 2009, 09:09 AM, said:

Hanoi5, on Jul 16 2009, 04:49 AM, said:

All white you hold:

x
Axx
AQ8xxx
KJx

Partner opens:

1NT 2♠*
3♣* 3♦
3NT ???

2♠ asks about minors......

Why isn't this hand treated a "single" long minor suit, slammish ?
In your NT structure, do you have an initial response to show that?
If so, Opener can support with as little as Honor-x doubleton.

that was the reason for the earlier question whether this hand is strong enough for the Walsh Relay. Phil says "yes". therefore, after the phony xfr to hts and the knock-off, one can bid 3D to show broken suit slam try. Opener with no honor xx or xxx will sign off. But, as stated, the OP has given a 2S start, so the replies on this string should address how to handle that. "another Problem with 1NT-2s" suggests the OP is not really happy with his structure, but wants to discuss the follow-ups within that scheme anyway.

[ONEferBRID]

Hanoi5, on Jul 16 2009, 04:49 AM, said:

All white you hold:

x
Axx
AQ8xxx
KJx

Partner opens:

1NT 2♠*
3♣* 3♦
3NT ???

Your 2♠ asks about minors, partner has at least 4♣'s, 2 or 3♦'s (most probably 2) and minimum HCP, what do you bid? (You showed interest in slam and at least 5♦'s).

Hanoi5 ..... What was Opener's hand ?