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again&again

Poll: 2 clubs? (37 member(s) have cast votes)

2 clubs?

  1. Unacceptable (3 votes [8.11%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.11%

  2. Almosut unacceptable (4 votes [10.81%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.81%

  3. Almoust acceptable (4 votes [10.81%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.81%

  4. Acceptable (17 votes [45.95%])

    Percentage of vote: 45.95%

  5. Depends on style (9 votes [24.32%])

    Percentage of vote: 24.32%

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#1 User is offline   karlis_ooo 

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Posted 2009-July-16, 16:04

Scoring: IMP


2♣ overcall is?
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#2 User is offline   Jlall 

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Posted 2009-July-16, 16:38

clear cut even over 1S.
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#3 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2009-July-16, 16:43

I'd rather have the sixth club than Kxx of hearts.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#4 User is offline   marcD 

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Posted 2009-July-17, 01:16

Not my style. Only acceptable over 1♦. Perhaps too conservative by today's standards but that's what my partners would expect
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#5 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2009-July-17, 02:44

favorable! AQxxxx! pass is unacceptable!
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
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#6 User is offline   karlis_ooo 

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Posted 2009-July-17, 03:14

How should the auction continue?

http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer...=e&b=6&a=1D2C3D

->
Spoiler
<-
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#7 User is online   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2009-July-17, 05:04

Hi,

2C, is fairly clear cut.

Over 3D it depends on agreement, best would be to have a X
as t/o availabe, the X will alway show some tolerance for
clubs, if not, simply bid 4C, or pass..

Better of course would be, if you have 3H as a fit bid av. av.,
but that is an agreement I would not bother to have unless you
reach a certain stage, and even than it is just luxury.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#8 User is offline   nick_s 

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Posted 2009-July-20, 07:49

I'm surprised by these responses.
To me this looks like a 3♣ overcall, not 2♣.
Not an expert, just a student of the game
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#9 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2009-July-20, 08:06

Agree with Nick.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#10 User is offline   andy_h 

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Posted 2009-July-20, 08:10

2♣ all day.
- Andy -

We are all connected to each other biologically, to the Earth chemically, and to the rest of the universe atomically.
We're in the universe, and the universe is in us.
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#11 User is online   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2009-July-20, 08:27

nick_s, on Jul 20 2009, 08:49 AM, said:

I'm surprised by these responses.
To me this looks like a 3♣ overcall, not 2♣.

3C is an option, the main issue with 3C is, that you are
green vs. red, and you may bid 3C without the king of
diamonds.

Since p did not yet have the chance to speak, it is a
matter of partnership agreement, if bidding 3C is a good
idea.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#12 User is offline   655321 

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Posted 2009-July-20, 08:43

The main issue with 3♣ is not the ♦K. The main issue is the texture of the club suit. We have AQ5432. This suit is very vulnerable to bad breaks, has very few playing tricks, and will take tricks in defense. If our club suit was KQJ932 the 3♣ overcall would be a lot more attractive, and I would bid 3♣ instead of 2♣.

I don't say that I would never preempt on an empty suit, but suit quality is a factor, and here there is a very reasonable (better) alternative in 2♣.
That's impossible. No one can give more than one hundred percent. By definition that is the most anyone can give.
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#13 User is offline   karlis_ooo 

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Posted 2009-July-20, 08:51

karlis_ooo, on Jul 17 2009, 04:14 AM, said:

How should the auction continue?

http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer...=e&b=6&a=1D2C3D

->
Spoiler
<-

Biddig goes [1♦]-2♣-[3♦]-X -//- Pass - ???

P_Marlowe suggested 4♣ or Pass...
What is (wrong) with 3N?
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#14 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2009-July-20, 09:02

karlis_ooo, on Jul 20 2009, 11:51 PM, said:

Biddig goes [1♦]-2♣-[3♦]-X -//- Pass - ???

P_Marlowe suggested 4♣ or Pass...
What is (wrong) with 3N?

When you decide to bid 2 club on this hand and on a hand with full values, you not only muddy the waters for your opponents but for your partner too.

Now you have to clear it up a bid and show that you have a quite weak hand within the possible range of a 2 ♣ call.

3 NT does not limit the hand. You have just one stopper and maybe less when they have another suit to lead through partner, who rates to be short in diamonds himself.

So I would hate 3 NT and bid 4 ♣.
Kind Regards

Roland

Sanity Check: Failure (Fluffy)
More system is not the answer...
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#15 User is offline   NickRW 

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Posted 2009-July-20, 09:46

At these colours, this, to me, is definitely a 2♣ overcall. The only question for me is what sort of jump overcalls are we playing - I might actually overcall 3♣.

Nick
"Pass is your friend" - my brother in law - who likes to bid a lot.
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#16 User is offline   nick_s 

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Posted 2009-July-20, 09:49

655321, on Jul 20 2009, 09:43 AM, said:

The main issue with 3♣ is not the ♦K. The main issue is the texture of the club suit. We have AQ5432. This suit is very vulnerable to bad breaks, has very few playing tricks, and will take tricks in defense. If our club suit was KQJ932 the 3♣ overcall would be a lot more attractive, and I would bid 3♣ instead of 2♣.

I don't say that I would never preempt on an empty suit, but suit quality is a factor, and here there is a very reasonable (better) alternative in 2♣.

Thanks for the lucid explanation.

So a wide ranging 2♣ overcall is becoming standard in some (most?) expert circles. I remember reading Sabine Auken advocating this in her book also.

I have two regular partnerships. I've discussed this with one partner and he doesn't want to play (1♦)-2♣ this way even though he understands the motivation. The other partner would just flat out call me crazy for even suggesting this. :)

Just how widespread is this 2♣ overcalling style anyway?
Not an expert, just a student of the game
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#17 User is offline   Jlall 

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Posted 2009-July-20, 11:16

655321, on Jul 20 2009, 09:43 AM, said:

The main issue with 3♣ is not the ♦K. The main issue is the texture of the club suit. We have AQ5432. This suit is very vulnerable to bad breaks, has very few playing tricks, and will take tricks in defense. If our club suit was KQJ932 the 3♣ overcall would be a lot more attractive, and I would bid 3♣ instead of 2♣.

I don't say that I would never preempt on an empty suit, but suit quality is a factor, and here there is a very reasonable (better) alternative in 2♣.

Wow even 655321 does not bid 3C, it must be madness!
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#18 User is offline   Jlall 

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Posted 2009-July-20, 11:17

nick_s, on Jul 20 2009, 10:49 AM, said:

655321, on Jul 20 2009, 09:43 AM, said:

The main issue with 3♣ is not the ♦K.  The main issue is the texture of the club suit.  We have AQ5432.  This suit is very vulnerable to bad breaks, has very few playing tricks, and will take tricks in defense.  If our club suit was KQJ932 the 3♣ overcall would be a lot more attractive, and I would bid 3♣ instead of 2♣.

I don't say that I would never preempt on an empty suit, but suit quality is a factor, and here there is a very reasonable (better) alternative in 2♣.

Thanks for the lucid explanation.

So a wide ranging 2♣ overcall is becoming standard in some (most?) expert circles. I remember reading Sabine Auken advocating this in her book also.

I have two regular partnerships. I've discussed this with one partner and he doesn't want to play (1♦)-2♣ this way even though he understands the motivation. The other partner would just flat out call me crazy for even suggesting this. :(

Just how widespread is this 2♣ overcalling style anyway?

I think its pretty normal to overcall aggressively with a 6 card suit, and conservatively (to say the least imo) with a 5 card suit, esp at favorable vulnerability. As Jdonn said, the 6th trump is better than a king, so you should adjust accordingly.
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#19 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2009-July-20, 11:37

Even if you don't want to overcall 2♣ with this, bidding 3♣ really is terrible. The suit is bad, the hand has tons of defense, it's just a six card suit, and the hand is balanced.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#20 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2009-July-20, 14:09

jdonn, on Jul 20 2009, 12:37 PM, said:

Even if you don't want to overcall 2♣ with this, bidding 3♣ really is terrible. The suit is bad, the hand has tons of defense, it's just a six card suit, and the hand is balanced.

Agreed with your fine explanation and I bid 2♣ here.
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