[Hanoi5]

Team match, none Vulnerable, you hold:

♠xxx
♥xx
♦KJ8
♣KQJxx

It goes:

Pa 1♥ ???

Follow up:

Pa 1♥

Spoiler

2C X
3N Pa Pa X
Pa Pa ???

[Cascade]

Not even close for me. I have been known to pass similar hands with another king.

[Jlall]

Is it MP?

[Hanoi5]

So, what would you have done if the auction had continued as stated?

[Codo]

Hanoi5, on Jul 9 2009, 09:56 PM, said:

So, what would you have done if the auction had continued as stated?

I would call the waiter. He should bid now, as he surely did already at my first turn.

This is an impossible dilemma. When you are allowed to bid 2 club with this crap, your partner is not allowed to jump to 3 NT as a passed hand.

When you play that 2 club overcalls are "normal", he still needs extreme hands to make such a call. But in that case , I simply pass, I have what I have bid.

But there is no way that I have a solution, how to recover after I broke my partnership agreements and got punished.

What do I know? Is 4 club cheaper? Maybe. But I will not roll the dice now which contract will fail for 800, I had made a different descission earlier.

[P_Marlowe]

Yes - 2C, but it is important that the partnership knowes
what they are playing.

And if p knowes me, the follow up seq. is not possible, not
even vs. a sounder overcall style, keep in mind p is a
passed hand.

Assume we have 6th club, partners bid basically showes the
Ace of clubs, a heart stopper Kx will do, and something in
spades and diamonds, whatever is possible for a passed hand.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[655321]

Hanoi5, on Jul 9 2009, 07:56 AM, said:

So, what would you have done if the auction had continued as stated?

This reminds me of a story in the very funny 'Miracles of Card Play' (David Bird and Terence Reese)

Scoring: Rubber

---

All vulnerable, RHO opens 1♥. Brother Aelred asks Brother Xavier what he would bid.

"I pass" replied Brother Xavier.
"Oh. Well, I made the perfectly reasonable overcall of 1♠" said Brother Aelred. "So take it from there. LHO doubles and your partner bids 1NT. What do you say?"
"I pass, of course." replied Brother Xavier.
"Since I had only eight points, no heart stop and a five card suit, I made a weakness takeout of 2♠. So take up the bidding from there. LHO doubles and your partner redoubles. What do you say now?"
"You must try 3♣ I suppose."
"Exactly!" said Brother Aelred triumphantly. "Just what I did. I'm glad you agree with my bidding. Now have a go at playing the hand, and see if you can get out for less than my 1100..."

[Hanoi5]

655321, on Jul 9 2009, 11:11 AM, said:

Hanoi5, on Jul 9 2009, 07:56 AM, said:

So, what would you have done if the auction had continued as stated?

This reminds me of a story in the very funny 'Miracles of Card Play' (David Bird and Terence Reese)

Scoring: Rubber

---

All vulnerable, RHO opens 1♥. Brother Aelred asks Brother Xavier what he would bid.

"I pass" replied Brother Xavier.
"Oh. Well, I made the perfectly reasonable overcall of 1♠" said Brother Aelred. "So take it from there. LHO doubles and your partner bids 1NT. What do you say?"
"I pass, of course." replied Brother Xavier.
"Since I had only eight points, no heart stop and a five card suit, I made a weakness takeout of 2♠. So take up the bidding from there. LHO doubles and your partner redoubles. What do you say now?"
"You must try 3♣ I suppose."
"Exactly!" said Brother Aelred triumphantly. "Just what I did. I'm glad you agree with my bidding. Now have a go at playing the hand, and see if you can get out for less than my 1100..."

Excellent story. When I make these threads I just want to have an opinion of the 'advanced' people here, prove a point to someone else or try to come up with a rule.

In this case I have the wrong idea that any partner can SOS the other and I was trying to gather some support for that. In this case, after making a bad overcall and hearing partner bid 3NT and been doubled you should try to save your partner from impending doom by taking out his 3NT (he passed as dealer!). Is that idea 100% wrong or just 90%? I mean, how usual is it to try to save partner after making a s****y bid and how correct?

[Cascade]

Hanoi5, on Jul 10 2009, 12:56 AM, said:

So, what would you have done if the auction had continued as stated?

Depends ...

Normally I would not expect partner to bid 3NT as a passed hand so he can suffer in 3NT.

However if partner reasonably expects a better hand for my 2♣ overcall it might be more sensible in the long run for me to suffer in 4♣.

[ArtK78]

One of the few times I have played in a club game in the last few years a similar auction occurred. I made an overcall on a hand like this opposite my passed hand partner, and we played light initial action. He bid 3NT. Now, I knew for a fact tha that the opponents had over half of the deck in high cards. However, by the time the defense was through with the butchery, my partner had made 10 tricks.

Admittedly, they had not doubled (apparently they knew their limitations).

I have no intention of pulling 3NT. If partner can bid 3NT, he can play 3NT. I certainly do not promise more than I have for my bid.

[Codo]

You cannot undo a wrong bid by another wrong one.

So the story of brother Aelred is the answer. No way for you to recover. Pass and pray.

There are hands where you can protect your partner because you have not described your hand perfectly so far. But here any new bid makes it worse, not better.

[P_Marlowe]

Hanoi5, on Jul 9 2009, 10:19 AM, said:

<snip>
In this case, after making a bad overcall and hearing partner bid 3NT and been doubled you should try to save your partner from impending doom by taking out his 3NT (he passed as dealer!). Is that idea 100% wrong or just 90%? I mean, how usual is it to try to save partner after making a s****y bid and how correct?

In general this is not a good idea.

Leave the decision "what to do" to the player, who knwoes the
most about the combined hand.
Ok, you mislead your partner slightly about your hand, but
make it

x
xx
KJx
KQJxxx

and now you have a hand that looks like a 2C overcall, a hand
partner hast to expect when he decided to bid 3NT.
How much different is this hand to the hand you did hold?

Give him Ax in clubs, and some distributed values outside with a
heart stopper, and partner has 7 running tricks, and we still have
the KJx in diamonds.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[the hog]

I would have passed. Had they opened 1D however.....
I would pass 3NTX. However my pd would not have bid 3NT