[aguahombre]

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North opens One club, south respondes 1S.
North rebids 1NT. South bids 2H.

they are playing 15-17 NT (sort of 2/1). At this point the vugraph commentators come unglued about how heavy the NF 2H bid is. Besides these two experts who bid the hand, is there anyone besides me, and my pard who agree with the non-PLOB rebid by responder? Yes, I am old enough to remember when NMF was called the Petty Little Odious Bid.

[655321]

Depends on what methods they were playing.

I would bid 2♣ (puppet to 2♦) then 2♥ to show an invitational hand with 5-4 in the majors. This way we can still stop at the 2 level. But with agreements that force us to the 3 level to show an invite I would just bid 2♥ instead.

[TimG]

Perhaps this is an exception, but generally when the vugraph commentators come unglued over something like this it seems to be that the commentators are influenced by being able to see all four hands and know that the game that is about to be missed is making.

During the Open Team Trials, Steve Weinstein caught some flack for rebidding 2S after 1S-1N (forcing) with AKT852 95 AT8 A3. Of course, game was on and responder passed 2S. Weinstein scored up +170 and lost 2 IMPs (+230 at the other table on the same auction, I believe).

Maybe the Senior who is the subject of the opening post, Weinstein, and his counterpart in the Open Trials all made slight errors in their evaluation. But the commentators are often quite bold in their criticism, almost like they are talk radio hosts trying to stir the pot, especially considering they are generally inferior players to the ones that they are criticizing and that they often appear not to have even glanced at the convention card of the players at the table.

[barmar]

It's a borderline invitational hand, but players at that level tend to be aggressive bidders (e.g. Meckwell seems to bid game on most 23 counts), so I can understand the commentators' surprise.

Furthermore, it's a 7-loser hand opposite an opening hand, which also suggests at least inviting game.

[jdonn]

I think you should invite, assuming you can stop at 2. But I wouldn't go off my rocker about someone who didn't.

[Jlall]

I would go off my rocker if someone did not invite with this.

[Jlall]

655321, on Jul 6 2009, 06:26 PM, said:

Depends on what methods they were playing.

I would bid 2♣ (puppet to 2♦) then 2♥ to show an invitational hand with 5-4 in the majors. This way we can still stop at the 2 level. But with agreements that force us to the 3 level to show an invite I would just bid 2♥ instead.

Even one way NMF does not force you to the 3 level (though it does force you to 2N rather than a 5-2 spade fit or 4-3 heart fit).

[jdonn]

Jlall, on Jul 7 2009, 04:21 PM, said:

655321, on Jul 6 2009, 06:26 PM, said:

Depends on what methods they were playing.

I would bid 2♣ (puppet to 2♦) then 2♥ to show an invitational hand with 5-4 in the majors.  This way we can still stop at the 2 level.  But with agreements that force us to the 3 level to show an invite I would just bid 2♥ instead.

Even one way NMF does not force you to the 3 level (though it does force you to 2N rather than a 5-2 spade fit or 4-3 heart fit).

Lots of people never learn properly, and opener always bids 2 of the major never 3, and responder bids 3 to invite. Where I'm sure you are refering to the 'correct' way where opener would have bid 3 with a max and 2 with a min, and responder raising 2 to 3 is a slam try.

Of course even better if you don't want to play 2-way (and the one thing Marshall taught me to play that I actually like lol) is to use 2♣ as the new minor no matter which minor was opened, so with no fit opener can always bid 2♦ and never has to bid 2NT.