[vin1990]

Playing with partner whose self-description is advanced+.

Scoring: IMP

---

The auction

1♦-pass-1♥-pass
3♥-

so at this point Im thinking 6-7♦ 6-7♥ or 7nt.

It continues
1♦-pass-1♥-pass
3♥-3♠-?

So after the 3 spade bid by opps Im thinking we might be off the ♠A but a grand is still possible.

I don't wan't to bid 6d or 5nt(choice of slams) in case (dont even know how 5nt would be taken). So the best bid to me now seems to be 4nt (rkc for hearts) - and then offer a choice of auctions later.

However silly me chose 4♦ thinking it was forcing and could establish diamonds as an alternative suit. It got passed .

So
i) what was my best bid?
ii) Is 4♦ here forcing?

[se12sam]

1. I'd say 4NT is a decent continuation. You are mostly interested in knowing key cards; and worried that spade ace could be missing.
2. Yes, 4♦ as forcing.

[Codo]

1. You know that you are in slam territory, your partner does not.
2. YOu took 4 ♦ as slam showing a double fit. Your partner thought about it as weak and competetive. I know some people who will take this as control, denying a club control.
3. You have every suit controlled, so when you have enough KCs, you have enough for a slam. So keep it simple and ask about KCs and bid to the right level.

Yes for experts and well oiled partnerships, scientific bidding is very useful. But as long as you are not finetuned, make the "easy" bid, which partner will surely understand. Bid 4 NT.

Later, you may discuss your and your partners style about what is forcing in competetion. But do not take this special sequence for too long. Few good plays find hands where they cannot act after 1 Diamond but are willing to introduce their spades after 3 HEart.



For your questions: 4 Diamond is sureyly forcing. There is no need to play 4 of your minor when you have a major fit established.

But 4 NT is much easier. YOu won't make a better descission after the possible 4 Heart or 4 Spade from partner.

[helene_t]

One problem with 4♦ is if your next bid is 4NT, p may be unsure which suit is trump. Even if he is confident that hearts are and ♥K counts as a KC, you may not be confident that he thinks that way.

Better to bid 4NT over 3♠, then if he reports two keycards you are confident that it ins't ♦K you are "missing"

[P_Marlowe]

#1 4NT looks ok, you know, that the partnership has the necessary power,
you have control in all suits, the only think you need to know is how many
tricks can the opponents take at once.
#2 yes, 4D is forcing, but it is a cue for hearts, you have found a fit.
Passing 4D does not make any sense at all, why does one want to play
a contract needing for 10 tricks to get 130, if one could also play a contract
needing only 10 tricks to get 620

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Phil]

4♦ is forcing, but it also denies a club card, so bid 4♣.

[neilkaz]

Your PD may be advanced+ at something but it most certainly isn't bridge.

He has made a GI jump raise of your suit and once you bid anything over that it is GF and likely looking for slam. LOL that he can pass a 10 trick contract worth 130 rather than play for game in your side's known 4-4 (and you could have more than 4♥) fit.

Anyhow, you could bid 4♣ , cuebidding the ♣ control and really flashing the slam signal. Alternately, you could just launch directly into RKCB and bid slam if PD has two keys+ the queen although the opp 3♠ bid has devalued your K and slam may not be cold, but I do think it is a good bet after PD's 3♥ bid if he has two key cards + the queen.

Some might interpret 4♦ as a cue for ♥. Others might interpret it as showing the two suiter to help PD decide what to do when the opps bid 4♠. But, no matter what, PD cannot pass 4♦ on this auction.

One wonders why RHO passed the first time and now bids 3♠? Why not make a preemptive jump overcall the first time and crowd the auction? RHO is hoping his PD fits ♠ and can bid 4♠ over your 4♥ for a cheap sac, but they are also vulnerable and once in a while RHO will get chopped up in 3♠x and worse yet if it happens on hands where 4♥ isn't cold, or where your side with have gone astray had he bid 3♠ directly.

[vin1990]

I knew 4♦ was forcing - i wanted to see it in print because I'm losing confidence. I also think if I was playing with my Dad Id bid 4♣ or 4nt without thinking - but BBO 'experts' have me totally spooked. (I know there are lots of legitimate experts here but generally the 'experts' you meet when you use the 'help me find a game' should generally be classified as 'may go down in 3nt in IMPs when holding 9 cashable top tricks' (yes it happened and it wasn't a misclick))

I mainly play poker and chess - and just want to drop in and out of BBO for quick games of bridge.

However, IMHO bridge is a way better game than poker or chess - it combines some of the bluff and deception of poker (by card play rather than body language) with much more difficult 'if-this-then-that' problems than chess because unlike chess where 'everything is known' half the cards are 'unknown' and the range of possibilities way greater.

I know to get better I have to play lots of hands - but my biggest thing is I have to count every hand from when the bidding starts and learn to visualize possible holdings. Doing that makes bridge exciting and a challenge (a big challenge for me anyway) - but so far I've sat down with about 15 'experts' with just 'advanced 2/1' on my profile and not one of these experts has discussed carding... its hard to count without signalling - it's like you're not even playing the game for what I think is its main challenge.

[P_Marlowe]

vin1990, on Jul 6 2009, 10:13 PM, said:

<snip>
- but so far I've sat down with about 15 'experts' with just 'advanced 2/1' on my profile and not one of these experts has discussed carding... its hard to count without signalling - it's like you're not even playing the game for what I think is its main challenge.

If you want to play serious, you need to find semi regular partners.

Thats your only chance, discussing cardings for 5-6 min for at most
10 bords (if you are lucky) is not worth it.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[vin1990]

Not even as simple as standard or UDCA?
3/5 leads or 4th best?

Only takes 10 seconds. Seems better than random carding.

[Codo]

Vin, you have the right attitude towards the game.

Maybe there are people who think that their method of signaling is standard.
But they are wrong. F.E. I would guess that there are about 50 % of udca players and 50 % of standard players.


So when you meet experts who do not care about carding, they are mostly no experts....

[vuroth]

Separating the wheat from chaff is a common complaing on BBO. There are true students of the game around - people who are more concerned with playing the game properly than with having an overinflated profile. Once you find those people, your enjoyment of BBO will go up immensely.

[neilkaz]

vuroth, on Jul 7 2009, 08:51 AM, said:

Separating the wheat from chaff is a common complaing on BBO. There are true students of the game around - people who are more concerned with playing the game properly than with having an overinflated profile. Once you find those people, your enjoyment of BBO will go up immensely.

Vin..I think that you may find it useful to put more than "2/1 advanced" in your profile.

I few questions which could be answered by including some details in that profile.

1430 or 3041? UDCA or standard carding..(anything different for discard?) ..what defence to NT openings ? ... any lebensohl ?

Many of those who are on BBO even when playing just a few hands, are hoping for good bridge and have rather extensive profiles. As you gain experience, you will probably be able to play many of those profiles exactly to the letter (esp if the players are from your part of the world and are 2/1ers). If you can't stand something they have listed or don't know it, you say do as I do...f/e "your card is good pd, but weak 2♦ pls, rather than Flan"

Also, when there's little or nothing listed, it doesn't hurt to ask "what carding PD?" when it is time to defend. If you get no answer, ask again after the hand, if you still want to stick around.

None of this is any guarantee of getting completely on the same wavelength with PD but it won't hurt to try and doesn't take long.

.. neilkaz ..