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Nice Defense Weird Auction but it actually happened.

Poll: What is going on here? (27 member(s) have cast votes)

What is going on here?

  1. WTP - everyone defends like this (6 votes [22.22%])

    Percentage of vote: 22.22%

  2. Brilliant - this guy must be a genious (14 votes [51.85%])

    Percentage of vote: 51.85%

  3. Lucky - every dog has its day (7 votes [25.93%])

    Percentage of vote: 25.93%

  4. Cheats - these guys have a wire (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#1 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2009-July-05, 05:14

Scoring: IMP

NS Uncontested
1♦ 1♥
1♠ 2♣*
2♦ 2♥
2♠ 3♥
4♥ All Pass


Trick 1: ♣ 4 2 K 3
Trick 2: ♣ 6 8 A 7
Trick 3: ♣ Q 10 ♠2 ♣ J
Trick 4: ♣ 5 ♦ 2 ♥ 10 ♥ Q

Down one.
Wayne Burrows

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#2 User is offline   paulg 

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Posted 2009-July-05, 05:34

It's looks an excellent lead to me.

Not sure that I'd have the imagination to find it myself but there are plenty of reasons supporting it. I'd want to write it up if I did this and it worked!

p
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#3 User is offline   se12sam 

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Posted 2009-July-05, 05:41

I think this is either brilliant or lucky.
a. Brilliant -- if East heard the bidding carefully, the low club is a sound candidate for a lead. Having said that, it could still make East look foolish in some cases. So there is some risk attached. If East consciously chose it, well done! He deserves the result.
b. Lucky -- every one of us has encountered people who underlead aces without any sound reason. This could be one of them.

I think the play to trick 4 is well thought out and some of the people who (randomly) underlead aces will not find it. The play to trick 4 tips the scales in the direction of brilliant.
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#4 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2009-July-05, 06:18

The auction suggests that South has some club length but not the King. North might have suggested 3NT if he had the King. Also it is IMPs and East's honours are well placed for declarer and there seem to be no bad splits. So to set the contract you need to assume you have some luck, and you need to lead aggressively.

Also West's high ruff suggests that these guy are competent defenders.

They could be cheating but most likely they are good, and lucky as well.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#5 User is offline   wclass___ 

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Posted 2009-July-05, 06:30

Brilliant
Seeking input from anyone who doesn't frequently "wtp", "Lol" or post to merely "Agree with ..." --sathyab
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#6 User is offline   655321 

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Posted 2009-July-05, 08:40

None of the above.

Seems like good defense to me - neither cheating nor spectacularly brilliant .

The 4th round of clubs was obvious, and leading a club also seems clear.

So the choice of a low club rather than the Ace was the only interesting decision for the defense. East did well to lead low, probably reasoning that if neither opponent wanted to bid NT, his partner very likely had the King. And if he has the King, leading low works best whenever the King is doubleton, as on the actual hand.
That's impossible. No one can give more than one hundred percent. By definition that is the most anyone can give.
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#7 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2009-July-05, 08:55

I think north's (a little) and south's (a lot) bidding are stranger than the defense.
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#8 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2009-July-05, 09:07

Huh? The auction looks ok to me. They may not be playing my pet methods, but playing vanilla I might very well have bid the same way. Maybe I have a weird notion of vanilla?
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#9 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2009-July-05, 09:33

Isn't it jdonn law to lead trump from East? If so, then the ♣ lead isn't really clear.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#10 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2009-July-06, 02:22

I guess that east understood norths bidding as 5 hearts with no stopper in clubs.
Soth denied a stopper too.
So the low club was a nice lead, but not too hard to find.

Maybe the 2 of spade denied a high diamond, so the only possile 4. trick was an uppercut.

Well done and a little lucky.
Kind Regards

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#11 User is offline   zasanya 

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Posted 2009-July-06, 08:08

Brilliant lead.Was it Fourquet? :)
Aniruddha
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#12 User is offline   bid_em_up 

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Posted 2009-July-06, 08:45

Abstain.

The answer to the question is dependent on the caliber of the player(s) in question.

For a World Class player, this should be an easy defense to find and wtp (doesn't mean they always will do so, but it would not be unexpected either). As others have stated, there is sound bridge logic on which to base this defense, and certainly any World Class player should be able to visualize the hands in this manner and find this defense.

For an Expert player, it's somewhere between a wtp, and "the guy is brilliant".

For Advanced, it's some of "the guy is brilliant" and some of "the guy is lucky".

For Beginner to Intermediate, it's normally just plain lucky (being rewarded for bad play).

Of course, any of the above could be wired as well. However, I would be inclined to believe that only if the player in question was known to be a poor player who consistently found this type of defense.
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#13 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2009-July-06, 09:11

Agree with 655321. I think the defense has advertised no club stop, so the underlead is well thought out, but I wouldn't call it routine for anyone.
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#14 User is offline   Jlall 

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Posted 2009-July-06, 13:22

normal
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#15 User is offline   bill1157 

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Posted 2009-July-06, 14:11

You couldn't say whether the defenders had a wire on the hand based on 1 deal, you would have to see a pattern of brilliant leads that don't turn out wrong once in a while to suspect something funny.

Bill
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#16 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2009-July-06, 14:43

bill1157, on Jul 7 2009, 08:11 AM, said:

You couldn't say whether the defenders had a wire on the hand based on 1 deal, you would have to see a pattern of brilliant leads that don't turn out wrong once in a while to suspect something funny.

Bill

Many people seem to claim "wire" based on one hand.

It has long been my contention that the hands that work out are not the proof of a "wire" but the ones that don't work out that are the proof of not cheating.
Wayne Burrows

I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

#17 User is offline   benlessard 

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Posted 2009-July-06, 22:26

At imps its a normal lead. At matchpoint is a pretty good lead if you trust your opponents.



3H, both pointed Q. its pretty hard to find another layout where 4H will go down.
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#18 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2009-July-06, 23:01

655321, on Jul 5 2009, 09:40 PM, said:

None of the above.

Seems like good defense to me - neither cheating nor spectacularly brilliant .

The 4th round of clubs was obvious, and leading a club also seems clear.

So the choice of a low club rather than the Ace was the only interesting decision for the defense. East did well to lead low, probably reasoning that if neither opponent wanted to bid NT, his partner very likely had the King. And if he has the King, leading low works best whenever the King is doubleton, as on the actual hand.

Totally agree. A C lead is 100% marked on the auction and the defence, while good, is nothing extraordinary. I also agree with Josh's comment regarding the bidding.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#19 User is offline   se12sam 

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Posted 2009-July-07, 03:36

Cascade, on Jul 6 2009, 09:43 PM, said:

Many people seem to claim "wire" based on one hand.
But not this knowledgeable forum. Option 4 has received 0(!) out of 23 votes after two days.
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#20 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2009-July-07, 05:37

Well done opps, I hate you but lets see if I can get you next deal.
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