[Deanrover]

OK been a while, was hoping to ease back in, second hand at table I get

♠ AQJ954
♥ Q
♦ ---
♣ AT8763

red v white. RHO opens, 3♦, what do I do?

More to come ......

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

with no special agreements in place bid 4S.

If you want to go sientific, you could try 4D,
most will recognise it as Michales, the danger being,
that they may think it promises both majors.
The alternative scientific bid would be 4C, non leaping
Michales, showing clubs + unspecified major.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Deanrover]

I doubled figuring if he bid ♥s I could come back with ♠s and he should be able to get the message?

[P_Marlowe]

Deanrover, on Jun 21 2009, 04:28 AM, said:

I doubled figuring if he bid ♥s I could come back with ♠s and he should be able to get the message?

You would choose this route, if you had a stronger hand,
you would need at least an add. Ace.

Basically you can play the same methods you play after
a 1D opening.
Using this guideline: If they would open 1D and you would
double and later bid spade, how would your hand look like?

Of course this assumes, you dont play ELC, another new scientific
wave method .-).
ELC = Equal length conversion, i.e. if you double and correct
partners suit to another suit without raising the level, the
conversion does not promise add. strength.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[helene_t]

Deanrover, on Jun 21 2009, 10:28 AM, said:

I doubled figuring if he bid ♥s I could come back with ♠s and he should be able to get the message?

Might work. Could backfire if p converts your double, or if p persists on hearts.

Many play 4♣ as showing black suits.

[cherdanno]

Deanrover, on Jun 21 2009, 04:28 AM, said:

I doubled figuring if he bid ♥s I could come back with ♠s and he should be able to get the message?

The typical shape for this would be a lot more balanced, e.g. 6313 or 5224.

[gwnn]

Without NLM or some two suiter agreement, I think you have to bid 4♠. It's ugly as hell but better than double or 3♠.

[Deanrover]

OK well I'd forgotten about the existence of this Michaels thing, so I doubled. Now LHO bids 3♥, and it's passed back to me. What now?

[P_Marlowe]

Deanrover, on Jun 21 2009, 02:50 PM, said:

OK well I'd forgotten about the existence of this Michaels thing, so I doubled. Now LHO bids 3♥, and it's passed back to me. What now?

4S.

That was your plan (or 3S), the plan may not be the best plan,
but it was your play, so see it through.
The 3H bid improved your hand, since now you know, they have
diamonds and hearts, i.e. there is a good chance, that partner will
have some clubs.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Jlall]

Deanrover, on Jun 21 2009, 02:50 PM, said:

OK well I'd forgotten about the existence of this Michaels thing, so I doubled. Now LHO bids 3♥, and it's passed back to me. What now?

Hey Dean,

1) Don't listen to the people mentioning Michaels. Although half the forums seem to play this, I would say less than 1 % of American EXPERTS play a 4C bid over a 3D opener as Michaels, let alone the population in general. To everyone else it just shows clubs!

2) Doubling after a preempt usually shows tolerance for the other majors, at least 2, even if you have a very strong hand. That is because 1 suiters can just jump to the appropriate level, which is strong (don't preempt over a preempt). So AKQxxx x Axx Axx bids 4S, and AKQxx Kx Ax KQxx doubles and bids spades. This way partner can always go to their own 6 card suit, and usually a 5 card suit with no tolerance for your suit.

3) So we come to your hand. This is a gap, since you have neither a 1 suiter nor a near 3 suiter. You have a 2 suiter, but 4D Michaels would just show the majors. Being stuck, I think it's best to forget about clubs and focus on the spades with a 4S bid. This is less of a distortion than anything available.

4) Having doubled, when 3H comes back around to you I would still just shoot out 4S. Lefty's heart bid has really increased the chance you have a good fitter.

[Deanrover]

OK so I bid 3s which in retrospect might have been too weak, bidding goes 4♦, 4♠, 5♦ back to me. Now I'm in real quandry.

[Codo]

So after bdding 3 ♠, which could have been a much weaker hand and hearing partner showing a fit, I would go for a slam.
When partner understands 5 ♥ as slam searching, I would try that.
But when I am in doubt whether my partner will understand any scientific bid, I just blast 6 Spade. This may fail, but opposite a fit there are way too many hands which can produce 12 tricks.

[P_Marlowe]

Deanrover, on Jun 21 2009, 03:54 PM, said:

OK so I bid 3s which in retrospect might have been too weak, bidding goes 4♦, 4♠, 5♦ back to me. Now I'm in real quandry.

Partner raised 3S to 4S?

If this was the case, bid 5S, you dont want to defend with the
given hand.

If you want to go fancy, you could pass, I would say, that you are
most likely in a forcing pass situation, i.e. either we play or they
play a doubled contract, but if you are unsure, bid 5S.
And if you did bid 3S before, than you should not change your strategy
anyway.

General speaking: Bid simple and straightforward, dont go searching
for the magic slam, ... and I agree with Justin, that after 5 years of
non bridge there more important things than this Michaels thing, which
you can only use in a fixed partnership, otherwise you just create
chaos.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[kfay]

JDonn FTW?!?!?!?!?!

[Deanrover]

OK I bid 5♠, LHO doubled and led the A♦

Dummy is

T832
K2
Q872
KJ5

[kfay]

Deanrover, on Jun 22 2009, 03:14 PM, said:

OK I bid 5♠, LHO doubled and led the A♦

Dummy is

T832
K2
Q872
KJ5

Well I can start to get a pretty good count on the hand. After ♠A etc. it looks at this point though that I'll be playing clubs as 3=1 but I really couldn't say right now (RHO is 1471?).

[skjaeran]

Ruff and play ♥Q.

[the hog]

Jlall, on Jun 22 2009, 03:25 AM, said:

Hey Dean,

1) Don't listen to the people mentioning Michaels. Although half the forums seem to play this, I would say less than 1 % of American EXPERTS play a 4C bid over a 3D opener as Michaels, let alone the population in general. To everyone else it just shows clubs!

snipped

3) So we come to your hand. This is a gap, since you have neither a 1 suiter nor a near 3 suiter. You have a 2 suiter, but 4D Michaels would just show the majors. Being stuck, I think it's best to forget about clubs and focus on the spades with a 4S bid. This is less of a distortion than anything available.

snipped

This is highly amusing. If the % of American experts increased from 1% then they would not have this problem on this hand. Might be an idea to ask why they don't play this. Client unfamiliarity perhaps, or maybe a client's faulty memory?

Oh hell, yes they would have a problem on the hands where they could no longer bid 4C, (and bypass a possible 3NT); they might still be able to bid 5C or even 3NT themselves with a suitable hand.

Great contract 4 of a minor by the way. It really does aim to stop on a sixpence.

Anyway, Dean, without the existence of nlm in my armoury, I would have just bid 4S. Double has to be wrong.

[awm]

The_Hog, on Jun 24 2009, 04:00 AM, said:

This is highly amusing. If the % of American experts increased from 1% then they would not have this problem on this hand. Might be an idea to ask why they don't play this. Client unfamiliarity perhaps, or maybe a client's faulty memory?

Or maybe they don't think it's a good convention?

This NLM craziness totally screws you on the club hands. I've played with teammates using this convention and several times they have gotten awful results on these hands. The point is not that you can "stop in 4♣" (although this is sometimes a big win over playing 5♣X); it's that you can get to 4M when partner has a real major suit without being forced to also play 4M on a 4-2 fit, that you can get to 4NT when it's right without being forced to play a large number of silly 3NTs with no stopper in the preempt suit, and that you can have intelligent auctions to slam in your minor because 5♣ doesn't have a huge range.

If NLM was more popular, instead of problems like this we'd see problem hands where you have a decent hand with 6-7♣ and no diamond stopper.

[jdonn]

Wow I only managed to get called out once in this thread! As much as I would enjoy this debate for the umpteenth time, I'll pass on it except to say I'm not sure I would want to bid nlm on this hand anyway. The spades can play opposite even a singleton.