[H_KARLUK]

Scoring: MP

---

1♣   1♠   2♦   4♠
X   PASS   ?

[Codo]

Hamid,

I have no choice to pass partners penalty double?
And I cannot raise partners suit beyond 5 Club?

In this case I try 5 NT, pick a slam.

[mike777]

insane i have 16 hcp and everyone bids...

ok....

1) does my partner bid on crap?
2) assume pard does not bid on crap
3) 7c
4) if partner opens on crap....bye

[skjaeran]

I was thinking 5♠, showing the void and inviting a grand. But partner will never be able to bid a grand off ♥AK.

The bidding indicates bad breaks. I won't commit myself to a grand where I need partner's clubs to be tight. So to me it's a choice between 5NT (pick a slam) and 6♦. I'll go for 6♦.

[the hog]

6D. Can't find out what I need to know.

[andy_h]

Assuming partner's double is probably just mild extras or better, I will now bid 5♠ indicating a void and inviting grand. This is cooperative bidding right? So at least 5♠ will give partner a chance to evaluate his hand and bid 5NT or something. If we have a grand try and have the 1st round control in spades (most likely void than stiff Ace), then surely we'd got to hold the ♥A if we're missing both minor Aces for a 5♠ bid. If we're unlucky enough to hit partner with ♠KQx and not so great of a hand, then I'm sure his judgement will tell him that we belong in a slam (I will correct 6♣ to 6♦). If he shows interest then I will bid 7♦.

[dake50]

andy h nailed it. 5S can't be missing much. If partner is looking at CAQ +DA, he sees grand. Even though he warned of wasted/minimal stuff with his X (forcing passes on after strong JS), I'm insisting slam. Cuss if he has S-AQ H-QJx D-xx C-QJxxxx.

[cherdanno]

dake50, on Jun 21 2009, 07:48 AM, said:

andy h nailed it. 5S can't be missing much. If partner is looking at CAQ +DA, he sees grand. Even though he warned of wasted/minimal stuff with his X (forcing passes on after strong JS), I'm insisting slam. Cuss if he has S-AQ H-QJx D-xx C-QJxxxx.

We did not make a strong JS, and I don't think pass is forcing without discussion. (I don't play it as forcing after discussion either.)
If pass is forcing, then I agree partner may bid a grand with A+AQ. If pass is not forcing, I don't think there is a way partner will bid 7.

[Fluffy]

6♦, partner might raise if he has a spade ace to spare

[Phil]

skaeran, on Jun 21 2009, 03:22 AM, said:

I was thinking 5♠, showing the void and inviting a grand. But partner will never be able to bid a grand off ♥AK.

The bidding indicates bad breaks. I won't commit myself to a grand where I need partner's clubs to be tight. So to me it's a choice between 5NT (pick a slam) and 6♦. I'll go for 6♦.

Agree with this. Pard's pass would have been NF, so a double indicates a willingness to defend.

I expect a weak NT with a little spade duplication; something like: KJx, Qxxx, xx, AQxx.

[Jlall]

Phil, on Jun 21 2009, 11:21 AM, said:

skaeran, on Jun 21 2009, 03:22 AM, said:

I was thinking 5♠, showing the void and inviting a grand. But partner will never be able to bid a grand off ♥AK.

The bidding indicates bad breaks. I won't commit myself to a grand where I need partner's clubs to be tight. So to me it's a choice between 5NT (pick a slam) and 6♦. I'll go for 6♦.

Agree with this. Pard's pass would have been NF, so a double indicates a willingness to defend.

wat?

[nige1]

H_KARLUK, on Jun 21 2009, 12:35 AM, said:

Scoring: MP


1♣   1♠   2♦   4♠
X   PASS   ?

---

IMO, partner's double showed no extra values; it just expressed his opinion; but you are still worth 5♠ = 10 or 5N = 9.

[gwnn]

Getting rather wordy lately nige1?

(I like 6♦ fwiw)

[H_KARLUK]

Say South picked 5♠. Then what could be 5NT of North ?

[gnasher]

H_KARLUK, on Jun 22 2009, 01:38 AM, said:

Say South picked 5♠. Then what could be 5NT of North ?

Good question. It's the sort of thing most of us never discuss, because we're too busy discussing third-round two-over-one sequences.

The possible meanings are:
- Pick a slam
- A return grand slam try

I think it would be pick a slam in most of my partnerships, but it ought to be a grand slam try.

[gnasher]

If you're going to make a grand-slam try with 5♠, surely you should bid 4NT first, to establish what trumps are? Then you might have an auction like
... 4NT
5♦ 5♠
6♣
which is a cue bid

[andy_h]

gnasher, on Jun 22 2009, 07:17 PM, said:

If you're going to make a grand-slam try with 5♠, surely you should bid 4NT first, to establish what trumps are?  Then you might have an auction like
... 4NT
5♦ 5♠
6♣
which is a cue bid

The problem with 4NT is that partner will almost always bid 5♣ if our initial meaning of 4NT was 2 places to play because he may have 1/2♦-5♣ or maybe even 6♣. Regardless if we had a grand I would definitely want to be in diamonds rather than clubs. If partner's clubs are only headed by AQxxx then there's a chance he may have the ♥Q for a discard or if he has some "useless" ♠QJx and LHO ends up leading the ♠A. So I guess what i'm trying to say is if 7♣ makes then surely our 7♦ will make too, with the added chance if clubs are 4-0.

[gnasher]

4NT doesn't commit you to playing in clubs. If it goes

... 4NT
5♣ 5♠ (or 5♥?)
6/7♣

you can still sign off in diamonds. In fact, converting 6♣ to 6♦ is quite informative - if partner is on top form he might actually picture this hand.

[H_KARLUK]

gnasher, on Jun 22 2009, 04:15 AM, said:

Good question.

Thanks indeed. Please keep going on to rise and shine like a star . Also many thanks to everybody shared their ideas on this platform.
Hamdi

[MFA]

2♦ does not create a force over 4♠ as I play. Therefore partner's X of 4♠ showed transferable values. 4NT take-out and then 5♠ over 5m to invite 7.