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Need for new forums?
#1
Posted 2004-May-26, 18:30
Perhaps we'll need a new forum for people who need to express their "1-trick-away from world championship" feelings.
I'll start.
Just a moment ago an indy tournament ended. In the last round partner open 1S, it gets doubled, and I bid 2H as of course nonforcing.
What happens? Partner bids 3NT and it is *of course* -5 and I already told the whole tournament thanks for position 2.
Here are the tournament outsights and results....
http://www.bragge.or...dy_26052004.doc
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
abe
I'll start.
Just a moment ago an indy tournament ended. In the last round partner open 1S, it gets doubled, and I bid 2H as of course nonforcing.
What happens? Partner bids 3NT and it is *of course* -5 and I already told the whole tournament thanks for position 2.
Here are the tournament outsights and results....
http://www.bragge.or...dy_26052004.doc
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
abe
#2
Posted 2004-May-26, 21:03
In most people's eyes 2♥ would be 100% forcing, unless by a passed hand. In fact, in the sequence it should be alerted as non-forcing.
#3
Posted 2004-May-26, 21:40
KiwiBridge, on May 26 2004, 10:03 PM, said:
In most people's eyes 2♥ would be 100% forcing, unless by a passed hand. In fact, in the sequence it should be alerted as non-forcing.
Thing like this happen all the time in individuals.. even good players have misunderstanding. Cause like kiwi and I said, 2♥ probably should be forcing... but the standard seems to be for it not to be.
ben
Thing like this happen all the time in individuals.. even good players have misunderstanding. Cause like kiwi and I said, 2♥ probably should be forcing... but the standard seems to be for it not to be.
ben
Hi. I am going to agree and disagree. I will agree that 2♥ should be forcing (and i will add it should be a transfer advance), but i will disagree that most people play it that way and that a non-forcing 2♥ has to be alerted.
In fact, in both BBO-advanced, and BBO-basic new suit at the two level over a double is non-forcing. So on the BBO, i would think that the "standard" is for it to be treated as non-forcing.
--Ben--
#4
Posted 2004-May-26, 22:30
Thanks for that, we Kiwi's are not used to all the nuances. I remember watching a Kiwi reply 2♠ to his SAYC partner's 1NT, thinking that as it is here that it was a forcing range finder game try. When his pard dutifully replied 3♣ as SAYC specifies, my friend took that as showing a MAX NT with 4 ♣'s. Thus they reached 3NT, down many, which forced him to learn SAYC properly
Here in live bridge, where we mainly play Acol, 2♥ would be assumed to be 100% forcing, and thus mandatory to alert at the table if not.
Here in live bridge, where we mainly play Acol, 2♥ would be assumed to be 100% forcing, and thus mandatory to alert at the table if not.
#5
Posted 2004-May-26, 22:52
KiwiBridge, on May 27 2004, 04:30 AM, said:
Thanks for that, we Kiwi's are not used to all the nuances. I remember watching a Kiwi reply 2♠ to his SAYC partner's 1NT, thinking that as it is here that it was a forcing range finder game try. When his pard dutifully replied 3♣ as SAYC specifies, my friend took that as showing a MAX NT with 4 ♣'s. Thus they reached 3NT, down many, which forced him to learn SAYC properly
Here in live bridge, where we mainly play Acol, 2♥ would be assumed to be 100% forcing, and thus mandatory to alert at the table if not.
Here in live bridge, where we mainly play Acol, 2♥ would be assumed to be 100% forcing, and thus mandatory to alert at the table if not.
In proper Acol, almost nothing is forcing
But seriously, after a double of 1♠, what do you do on a hand like
♠x ♥Txxxxxx ♦xx ♣xxx?
If you can't suggest to partner that it might be right to play in 2♥ he might find himself struggling in 1SX.
Eric
#6
Posted 2004-May-26, 23:49
Here in live bridge, where we mainly play Acol, 2♥ would be assumed to be 100% forcing, and thus mandatory to alert at the table if not.
Hi KiwiBridge,
No this is not correct. After a X 2H is non forcing in Acol sayc or whatever. In fact if you have the agreement that it IS forcing, then I would suggest you need to alert it. (You might have the agreement of transfer advances as suggested by Ben.)
Hi KiwiBridge,
No this is not correct. After a X 2H is non forcing in Acol sayc or whatever. In fact if you have the agreement that it IS forcing, then I would suggest you need to alert it. (You might have the agreement of transfer advances as suggested by Ben.)
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
#7
Posted 2004-May-27, 06:59
But surely when your partner bids 3NT it clearly will have no play whatsoever, so why not bid 4H? Which would appear to be at worst 2 off.
I think you're not entirely innocent in this one. And anyway, in individuals misunderstandings do happen.
The fact that no-one appeared to have anything approaching their bids on this board is neither here nor there.
I think you're not entirely innocent in this one. And anyway, in individuals misunderstandings do happen.
The fact that no-one appeared to have anything approaching their bids on this board is neither here nor there.
#8
Posted 2004-May-27, 07:49
EricK, on May 26 2004, 11:52 PM, said:
But seriously, after a double of 1♠, what do you do on a hand like
♠x ♥Txxxxxx ♦xx ♣xxx?
If you can't suggest to partner that it might be right to play in 2♥ he might find himself struggling in 1SX.
Eric
♠x ♥Txxxxxx ♦xx ♣xxx?
If you can't suggest to partner that it might be right to play in 2♥ he might find himself struggling in 1SX.
Eric
My bid with or without X is 1NT (forcing): After X 1NT can't be natural even if you don't play 1NT forcing.
For details: Kaplan-Sheinwold
Al
♥♥♥ Play Bridge for fun and entertainment and to meet nice people. ♥♥♥
♠♥♠ BAD bidding may be succesful due to excellent play, but not vice versa. ♦♣♦
Teaching in the BIL TUE 8:00am CET.
Lessons available. For INFO look here: Play bridge with Al
♠♥♠ BAD bidding may be succesful due to excellent play, but not vice versa. ♦♣♦
Teaching in the BIL TUE 8:00am CET.
Lessons available. For INFO look here: Play bridge with Al
#9
Posted 2004-May-30, 17:51
What has happened to the good old XX?
Surely, If I hold the hearts and more than 10 points, I'd lay a big blue card on the table, or?
Meaning, on the 2-level the bids should surely be nonforcing.
abe
Surely, If I hold the hearts and more than 10 points, I'd lay a big blue card on the table, or?
Meaning, on the 2-level the bids should surely be nonforcing.
abe
#10
Posted 2004-May-30, 18:14
I would of course not waste this area of the board to become a discussion board for badly bid boards. But I just have to comment mr1303's posting.
If partner bids 3NT, I simply have to trust his/her judgement. Or? He might as well have 7 quick spade tricks and 2 aces and a void in hearts. It would certainly not look good to score -1 in 4 hearts after that.
Whatever. My point was to pinpoint a need for a forum to have the "WHAT IF...!" discussions
abe
If partner bids 3NT, I simply have to trust his/her judgement. Or? He might as well have 7 quick spade tricks and 2 aces and a void in hearts. It would certainly not look good to score -1 in 4 hearts after that.
Whatever. My point was to pinpoint a need for a forum to have the "WHAT IF...!" discussions
abe
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