[mtvesuvius]

Scoring: MP

How do you bid this hand and where will you land here?

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[Fluffy]

simplest would be:

2♣-2♦
3♠-4♠ (3♠ demands a cue)
pass.

But since the suit quality is probably not good enough and you might want to introduce clubs it is reasonable to bid

2♣-2♦
2♠-3♥
3♠-4♠
(5♣-5♠)
pass

[kenrexford]

2♣-2♥(double negative -- no King, not two queens)
2♠(1RF)-3♥
3NT-Pass

Not sure that 3NT is better than 4♠; it's just where I end up.

[PFormaini]

Here's how my Precision partner and I bid it:

1♣*-----1♦**
2♠#-----2NT@
3♣^-----3♥$
3NT

END

*- 16+ HCP
**- 0-7 HCP
#- Ace and Support Asking Bid in Spades
@- No Aces, no spade support
^- Anything else?
$- A heart suit, no 4 card club support

If partner had 10 x x x in clubs, we would get to 6♣

AS given, no problem getting to the best contract.

[Cascade]

We would probably get to 3NT or 4NT.

The auction is ugly

[hanp]

2C - 2H (negative)
2S - 2NT
3C - 3NT
4S?

[suokko]

I would misscount my points and open 1♠. PArtner passing but opp to rescue with balancing double and we would end up defending 2♥ doubled

more likely:
2♣-2♦(relay);
2♠(4+♠)-2NT(relay);
4♣(6+♠-4♣)-4♠

[jdonn]

2♣ 2♦
2♠ 2NT (second negative, I prefer this to 3♣)
3♣ 3♥
3NT

[Tomi2]

1♣ - 1♦ polish style / negative or...
2♦ - 3♣ any GF / 0-3 hcp, one 4/5 card major
3♠ - 3NT spades, not interested in your hearts / no ♠ fit, something outside
4♣ - 4♠ clubs / leave me alone
pass

hope this would be the auction with my father

1♣ - 1♦ polish style / negative or...
2♦ - 2♠ any GF / double negative, no own suit
3♠ - 3NT spades / no ♠ fit, something outside
4♣ - 4♠ clubs / please leave me alone


hope both players would be so disciplined and bid this way

[Gerben42]

1♠ (forcing) - 1NT
2NT (big 2-suiter) - 3♣ (asking)
4♣ (6♠ 4♣ GF) - 4♠ (stop pls)
Pass

[Codo]

2♣ 2 [♠] (weak against spades, but GF opposite hearts)
3♠ 4♠ (GF with spades, weakest possible rebid)
pass

[Gerben42]

Quote

  2♣ 2 [♠] (weak against spades, but GF opposite hearts)
3♠ 4♠ (GF with spades, weakest possible rebid)
pass

Playing a standardish system, I think this should be the recommended approach.

[Cascade]

Gerben42, on May 28 2009, 10:44 PM, said:

1♠ (forcing) - 1NT
2NT (big 2-suiter) - 3♣ (asking)
4♣ (6♠ 4♣ GF) - 4♠ (stop pls)
Pass

How big is big?

I would have thought that maybe a 27 count has something extra to show after this auction?

Is 1NT some sort of negative?

[Free]

2♣ - 2♥ (neg)
4♠ - pass

[jdonn]

I just don't understand systems that never show clubs. If partner has club support then I virtually can't think of any hand, yarbroughs included, that is not a club slam.

[inquiry]

The easiest way for me is....

2♣ - 2♠
4♠

Where 2♣ is forcing, 2♠ is instant second negative, showing no tricks for a spade contract (that includes no kings or aces and not two queens) but a ruffing trick for a heart contract. 4♠ ends the search.

We are off the ♥A, and the ♦K. We might have slam if partner has four to six clubs, 3+ hearts, and two or fewer spades, but this would be very difficult to find. 3♠ would be forcing (partner denied already a trick for spades) and allow partner to show another suit if he cares. But I think here it is not necessary, and if you went that way, it would be...

2♣ = 2♠
3♠ = 4♥
4♠.

[Free]

jdonn, on May 28 2009, 05:38 PM, said:

I just don't understand systems that never show clubs. If partner has club support then I virtually can't think of any hand, yarbroughs included, that is not a club slam.

You're right that ♣ support would be wonderful.

Strong 2♣ is not very common here, so this may be a stupid question: is 2♣-2♥-2♠ forcing when 2♥ is negative? My thought would be "no", that's why I'd rather bid 4♠ immediately rather than having partner pass 2♠. If 2♠ is forcing, then obviously 4♠ is a lousy bid...

[kenrexford]

Free, on May 29 2009, 01:33 PM, said:

jdonn, on May 28 2009, 05:38 PM, said:

I just don't understand systems that never show clubs. If partner has club support then I virtually can't think of any hand, yarbroughs included, that is not a club slam.

You're right that ♣ support would be wonderful.

Strong 2♣ is not very common here, so this may be a stupid question: is 2♣-2♥-2♠ forcing when 2♥ is negative? My thought would be "no", that's why I'd rather bid 4♠ immediately rather than having partner pass 2♠. If 2♠ is forcing, then obviously 4♠ is a lousy bid...

2♣-2♥(neg)-2♠ is 100% forcing. However, it seems like 99% of people who learn to play 2♥ as negative don't realize this until someone tells them.

[Codo]

kenrexford, on May 30 2009, 03:36 AM, said:

2♣-2♥(neg)-2♠ is 100% forcing. However, it seems like 99% of people who learn to play 2♥ as negative don't realize this until someone tells them.

You may play it this way but you do not need to. And when you play the (in Europe) popular approach that 2 ♣ is at least a semiforcing, you better play 2 ♠ as non forcing.

[helene_t]

jdonn, on May 28 2009, 05:38 PM, said:

I just don't understand systems that never show clubs. If partner has club support then I virtually can't think of any hand, yarbroughs included, that is not a club slam.

Yes, a club fit can be difficult to find in the Phantom Club system. It would go like
1♣*-1♥
2♣*-2♥
2♠-3♦
?

and now 4♣ would probably not be natural, but CoG. I think I would bid 4NT here and play there