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too many ways to raise partner evalutation question

Poll: best description of this hand: (38 member(s) have cast votes)

best description of this hand:

  1. 2C natural, 2/1 game forcing (6 votes [15.79%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.79%

  2. 2N Jacoby (1 votes [2.63%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.63%

  3. 3C strong jump shift (shows S support + H shortness next with 4H) (6 votes [15.79%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.79%

  4. 3D invitational bergen raise (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. 4H splinter in hearts (singleton or void, game forcing but limited) (15 votes [39.47%])

    Percentage of vote: 39.47%

  6. 4S to play (preemptive or no slam interest) (10 votes [26.32%])

    Percentage of vote: 26.32%

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#1 User is offline   rbforster 

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Posted 2009-May-18, 21:56

Partner opens a limited 1♠ and it's up to you how to raise. You have lots of methods (see poll). What's your choice?

1♠-?

* 5+♠, 9-15 hcp

(for reference, usually 10-12 with a fit is an invite, although obviously this has lots more shape than usual!)

Edit: the strong jump shift option is natural, showing a good suit (2/3 tops). Bidding 4H next shows 4+ support, heart shortness, and at least GF values.
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#2 User is offline   JLOL 

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Posted 2009-May-18, 22:07

What is the vulnerability and form of scoring? I'd usually bid 4S.
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#3 User is offline   rbforster 

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Posted 2009-May-18, 22:12

You can specify if you want - matchpoints, don't recall the colors.
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#4 User is offline   Tola18 

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Posted 2009-May-18, 22:52

Part of the answer is probably, how I do evaluate the hand (and possibly partner a) overall playing strengh :) his form as today and now).

Ie, if Im contend with game - 4S at once is appropriate here.
If I think there are slam chances - I should use some searching method...


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In the beginners manual it is only invite. Say a limit 3sp. More experienced players dont stop there...
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#5 User is offline   hanp 

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Posted 2009-May-18, 23:00

4H.
and the result can be plotted on a graph.
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#6 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2009-May-19, 03:22

4♥ is to play, I guess??? :)

Anyway, 4♠. Maybe this steals the pot. If not, I'll take push to 5.
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#7 User is offline   655321 

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Posted 2009-May-19, 04:08

I would bid 2NT.

Then depending on what happens next, we might still show heart shortage.
That's impossible. No one can give more than one hundred percent. By definition that is the most anyone can give.
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#8 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2009-May-19, 04:44

I normally hate splinters which are direct below the own game level. But here the hand is perfect. Partner will bid more with good values in the other suits and in that case, slam is reasonable.

The lower approach will sometimes be heavily disturbed by heart or two suiter bids, so I would take the high road to describe my hand.
Kind Regards

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#9 User is offline   mtvesuvius 

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Posted 2009-May-19, 07:20

I like 4♥ here... it also has a nice pre-emptive value :)
Yay for the "Ignored Users" feature!
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#10 User is offline   ochinko 

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Posted 2009-May-19, 07:30

2♣ for me. 4♥ I would bid with

♠KQxxxx
♥
♦xx
♣KQxxx

but I wouldn't mind much if partner bids 4♥.
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#11 User is offline   dicklont 

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Posted 2009-May-19, 09:17

ochinko, on May 19 2009, 03:30 PM, said:

2♣ for me. 4♥ I would bid with

♠KQxxxx
♥
♦xx
♣KQxxx

but I wouldn't mind much if partner bids 4♥.

You have 11 spades, ♠Q will drop anyway, but ♦Q could be very usefull.
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#12 User is offline   dake50 

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Posted 2009-May-19, 09:49

Do I have H-exclusion A-ask? Below 4S answers preferred.
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#13 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2009-May-19, 12:16

guys, 1♠ is 11-15. Showing your hand here isn't the correct strategy: the time is to make decisions.
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#14 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2009-May-19, 12:34

At MPs I would always 4♠.

At IMPs I would 3♣. I think there's enough of a chance of a slam that I want to shoot for it.
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#15 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2009-May-19, 12:55

It's not as much a question of describing the hand best as to give yourself the best chance for a good result.

4♠ for me, shut out opps.
Kind regards,
Harald
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#16 User is offline   ochinko 

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Posted 2009-May-19, 13:25

Why do you have to shut out opps when you hold the boss' suit? You are shutting out partner with a hand that has so much slam potential in it.
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#17 User is offline   hanp 

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Posted 2009-May-19, 14:01

I think this hand has too much slam potential to bash 4S. It is true that 4H gives the opponents a chance to double and find their sac, but I think the chance of finding a good slam outweighs this risk.
and the result can be plotted on a graph.
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#18 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2009-May-19, 14:08

ochinko, on May 19 2009, 08:25 PM, said:

Why do you have to shut out opps when you hold the boss' suit? You are shutting out partner with a hand that has so much slam potential in it.

That's because they might find a very good sac. I'd be much more inclined to bid a fitjump 4♣ than splinter 4♥.
Kind regards,
Harald
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#19 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2009-May-19, 15:38

hanp, on May 19 2009, 08:01 PM, said:

I think this hand has too much slam potential to bash 4S. It is true that 4H gives the opponents a chance to double and find their sac, but I think the chance of finding a good slam outweighs this risk.

That is correct, but are you sure your system is good enough that you can find the key cards in pard, e.g.

AQxxx
xxx
Kxx
Ax

I do have an idea on how to bid this construtively: when I used to play precision, splinters where not showing bids, but asking bids. In this case, if it went

1♠ 4♥

opener would rebid 4NT showing a min with no heart wastage. Maybe you'd get there then.
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#20 User is offline   jeffmcgow 

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Posted 2009-September-13, 11:24

skaeran, on May 19 2009, 03:08 PM, said:

ochinko, on May 19 2009, 08:25 PM, said:

Why do you have to shut out opps when you hold the boss' suit? You are shutting out partner with a hand that has so much slam potential in it.

That's because they might find a very good sac. I'd be much more inclined to bid a fitjump 4♣ than splinter 4♥.

As it's matchpoints a quick auction also gives you the chance of 13 tricks on a non-diamond lead when you have two top losers in diamonds. So a direct 4♠ for me.
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