[rfedrick]

Scoring: IMP

(2♠)-X-(4♠) to you. If it matters, RHO is a very strong player, LHO less so but solid.

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It's possible that i should really be posting partner's hand as the problem, but i'll see what the consensus is this way round first.

[Echognome]

To me it's an obvious 4NT. Although my 2nd choice would be simply to bid 5♦ as we have a good chance of landing in clubs when diamonds is better by bidding 4NT.

[mtvesuvius]

obv 4NT

[barmar]

4NT for me, too. 2nd choice is pass, hoping partner will reopen, and then I'll bid 4NT.

The problem with bidding 5♦ immediately is that partner might take you to have a stronger hand, not just shape, and raise you to 6 ("but partner, you made a free bid at the 5 level!").

[Cascade]

Is it obvious that 4NT is for takeout?

What rules do you have for this sort of auction?

In principle we have different rules when we have double available than when we are responding to a double from partner.

[jdonn]

It's certainly obvious to me 4NT is takeout for two suits and that's what I would do. I do appreciate that we could reach clubs with diamonds better, but I want to leave both suits in play (I don't agree that 5♦ implies a better hand than 4NT, at least in terms of playing strength).

[whereagles]

Cascade, on May 15 2009, 12:17 AM, said:

Is it obvious that 4NT is for takeout?

What rules do you have for this sort of auction?

Not totally obvious.

Rule is "in case of pree, shape comes first". This makes it obvious.. at least for me

[the hog]

4NT. It is obvious for me as well that this is for takeout.

[cherdanno]

I think 4NT is clear.

[hanp]

No alternatives.

[Phil]

Don't like 4N. If pard has the type of hand where you want to compete to the 5 level, pard will double a 2nd time, and now 4N describes your hand to a tee.

I also don't like competing in spots like this where pard doesn't have a clue about your strength. I think there are many hands where pard can double that should be allowed to bid 6. This is a horrible hand if pard is expecting more.

Put it this way, if you think its correct to bid 4N on the subject hand, and bid it on a hand like: x, x, AQJxx, KTxxxx, I think you need to have your bidding glasses cleaned.

[hanp]

Clear 4NT, too many ways to win.

[JLOL]

Phil, on May 14 2009, 09:44 PM, said:

Put it this way, if you think its correct to bid 4N on the subject hand, and bid it on a hand like: x, x, AQJxx, KTxxxx, I think you need to have your bidding glasses cleaned.

You mean you might be under pressure when they bid this way, and partner has to give you a lot of leeway so you might miss slam? WOW.

[Hanoi5]

I hardly believe Pass it's obvious, though I don't bid 4NT confidently.

[Phil]

JLOL, on May 14 2009, 10:13 PM, said:

Phil, on May 14 2009, 09:44 PM, said:

Put it this way, if you think its correct to bid 4N on the subject hand, and bid it on a hand like: x, x, AQJxx, KTxxxx, I think you need to have your bidding glasses cleaned.

You mean you might be under pressure when they bid this way, and partner has to give you a lot of leeway so you might miss slam? WOW.

A lot of leeway is right.

Harken back to the GNT-A from Atlanta. You hold: ♠AKx, KQxx, AKQxx, x and hear:

3♣ - dbl - 5♣ - 5♠
pass - ?

[655321]

4NT obvious.

Phil, on May 14 2009, 11:27 PM, said:

A lot of leeway is right.

Harken back to the GNT-A from Atlanta. You hold: ♠AKx, KQxx, AKQxx, x and hear:

3♣ - dbl - 5♣ - 5♠
pass - ?

On your hand I would always bid 6♠, recognizing that this might not work. The singleton in their suit is a very bad holding for bidding slam.

But how is this similar to the hand in this thread? I know I will bid 4NT on the actual auction much more often than I would bid 5♠ on your auction. Partner knows we have a number of possible motives for bidding 5/4. To bid 5/5 on the other hand we should be expecting to make our contract - I believe that to bid 5/5 on these auctions as a sacrifice is bad bridge. There is a big difference between bidding 5m over 4♠ and bidding 5♠ over 5m.

[OleBerg]

Obv. 4NT.

If I played with a partner adverse to bidding on few values, I might bid it reluctantly, preparing for the post-mortem.

[jdonn]

Phil if partner bids 6 why can't it even be making? Oversimplifying, but essentially there are 5 important cards for slam and we make if he has 4 of them.

I won't work very hard to convince you, but passing is really quite awful.

[Phil]

655321, on May 15 2009, 12:07 AM, said:

4NT obvious.

Phil, on May 14 2009, 11:27 PM, said:

A lot of leeway is right.

Harken back to the GNT-A from Atlanta. You hold: ♠AKx, KQxx, AKQxx, x and hear:

3♣ - dbl - 5♣ - 5♠
pass - ?

On your hand I would always bid 6♠, recognizing that this might not work. The singleton in their suit is a very bad holding for bidding slam.

But how is this similar to the hand in this thread? I know I will bid 4NT on the actual auction much more often than I would bid 5♠ on your auction. Partner knows we have a number of possible motives for bidding 5/4. To bid 5/5 on the other hand we should be expecting to make our contract - I believe that to bid 5/5 on these auctions as a sacrifice is bad bridge. There is a big difference between bidding 5m over 4♠ and bidding 5♠ over 5m.

It is similar because the 5♠ bidder had a hand of the same genre. ♠Q-7th and some shape.

[cherdanno]

Phil, on May 14 2009, 09:44 PM, said:

Don't like 4N. If pard has the type of hand where you want to compete to the 5 level, pard will double a 2nd time, and now 4N describes your hand to a tee.

I also don't like competing in spots like this where pard doesn't have a clue about your strength. I think there are many hands where pard can double that should be allowed to bid 6. This is a horrible hand if pard is expecting more.

Put it this way, if you think its correct to bid 4N on the subject hand, and bid it on a hand like: x, x, AQJxx, KTxxxx, I think you need to have your bidding glasses cleaned.

Better miss a couple of 60% slams (suits don't break well on these auctions) than miss a couple of double game swings.