[JanM]

In the Cavendish top 5 thread, Fred commented:

Quote

It looks like you did your calculations before the (several) score corrections that took place after the standings were first posted. The final standings (which I think are now official) are available here:

Link

My understanding from casual discussions after the event is that most of the score corrections were because the score had been entered improperly in the Bridgemate. On one round, where Chip was EW, all three scores were backward. I kidded him about doing a bad job of checking and approving the scores entered by the North player, and he said that the North player had not asked him to approve the scores. He also said that was the normal situation - North or South just entered and approved the scores. Other people said the same.

This led me to wonder whether something similar happens where Bridgemates are used more commonly, or whether players eventually get in the habit of asking their opponent to approve the score, and if so, does that reduce the number of incorrect entries? Or do the players entering the scores do a better job when they are more familiar with the hardware?

[helene_t]

I have played at two clubs (Lancaster and Ruit (Amsterdam)) and many tournaments in UK and NL where they were used. Players are generally familiar with the bridgemates in both countries.

It is rare that EW are not allowed to verify the score. When it happens it will almost always be a mechanical error o.b.o. N, and EW will then generally use the opportunity to review the results afterwards (although a single tournament I participated in did not allow score reviews).

The verification by EW is often sluggish, though, so during a typical 27x8 club night it will happen once or twice that the TD is called because "sorry, we approved a wrong result".

[hanp]

East-West always check, of course.

[jdonn]

JanM, on May 11 2009, 10:39 AM, said:

My understanding from casual discussions after the event is that most of the score corrections were because the score had been entered improperly in the Bridgemate. On one round, where Chip was EW, all three scores were backward. I kidded him about doing a bad job of checking and approving the scores entered by the North player, and he said that the North player had not asked him to approve the scores. He also said that was the normal situation - North or South just entered and approved the scores. Other people said the same.

Interestingly, I also found most EW pairs didn't even bother against us, so I had to either approve it myself or speak it. Twice I mentioned that I had approved it myself, and both times I got a "why are you bothering me, who cares?" look, so I stopped mentioning it.

[se12sam]

Whenever I have played in a club,
1. North always enters score. In fact, I have noticed some North's are upset if dummy (say West) tries to enter the contract details etc after a contract has been reached.

2. She/he always turns the Bridgemate over to West or East to approve.

3. Once approved, North (often) places it such that at least one opponent can see when they scroll down the comparisons.

[sireenb]

I have only used them at Zonal and World Championships. The approval is taken very seriously at those events. Whether I was N or E, it was normal to call the Director if the score was not verified by EW. This happens if you press an extra 'Enter' which actually verifies the score and brings up the next hand. After that there is no way to see the score unless the Director uses a key.

At Beijing, an opponent once walked off after the last board of a match and did not verify the score. I immediately called the Director who caught up with the player and double-checked. I did not verify the score myself.

I played at the Transnational in Shanghai and the players were supposed to enter the numbers of the N/S/E/W players before entering the scores for the hands. Some players were sloppy with that process and it really irritated me because the Butler score then goes to the wrong player on the team. Once I noticed this (Butler scores are posted on the web), I started making sure that part was done properly as well!

I am really surprised by what you said about the practises at this event, Jan and Josh.

[paulg]

se12sam, on May 11 2009, 05:32 PM, said:

Whenever I have played in a club,
1. North always enters score. In fact, I have noticed some North's are upset if dummy (say West) tries to enter the contract details etc after a contract has been reached.

2. She/he always turns the Bridgemate over to West or East to approve.

3. Once approved, North (often) places it such that at least one opponent can see when they scroll down the comparisons.

Ditto - it's the same in Scottish tournaments and congresses.

Of course the more you use them, the greater the chance that there are experienced users at your table.

And we are reaching the state where we complain if Bridgemates (or similar) are not in use.

Paul

[barmar]

I find it surprising that they don't check the scores with BridgeMate, since in my experience EW usually DO check pick-up slips. Could it be that the high technology turns off the old players? But that would also suggest that they'd have trouble entering the scores when they're North. Once they get used to this, I wouldn't expect them to be reluctant to check as well.

Has anyone ever seen the "why are you bothering me" attitude when a caddy has returned a pick-up slip because EW forgot to initial it?

[Mbodell]

Do the bridgemates have the ability for there to be an EW code? I know the bridgepads which we use locally have such an ability (although in the club it is not usually used). With the code, a 2 digit secret number EW enter in at the start of the session, it becomes impossible to validate the results against an EW without their code. And EW can pick whatever code they want, so it isn't just their pair number or something. Playing with this at least makes sure that NS and EW are involved.

[mycroft]

barmar: as a TD, who occasionally has to send slips back for more than just initialling: YES.

[655321]

My experience is that while there are some people who prefer to check the scores, it is more common for East-West to tell North-South that they are happy for the scores to be entered without checking.

[gnasher]

My experience is that there's about a 1/20 chance of North putting the wrong score in (or 1/5 if North happens to be me) so checking seems worthwhile.

[Gerben42]

I've used bridgemates in national and international championships both as a player and as a TD (and seen them in use while vugraphing). It is standard practice to CHECK THE RESULT!

North types in score, then gives the box to East who gives the OK. If this doesn't happen, you can ask the TD to show you the score again.

[blackshoe]

Using pickup slips, it is "standard practice" for North to enter the scores and, at the end of the round, for one of EW to verify them and initial the slip. What happens in practice is that either EW doesn't bother signing at all, or they sign without checking. Infrequently, someone will actually verify the written scores against their own personal score. Then of course there are the players who pride themselves on their excellent memories, and so "verify" the written scores against what they think happened. I have to admit these guys are often right.

In entering scores from the pickup slips, I've seen: scores written on the wrong side, illegible scores, scores which don't match the vulnerability, scores which don't match the written contract, scores which aren't written at all, and probably more I can't think of off the top of my head. I could rail at players who don't do their freaking job in writing down or verifying the score, but I've been guilty of these transgressions myself from time to time, so I won't.

[FrancesHinden]

Whenever I play with bridgemates (at everything from my local club to national and EBL/WBF open events) EW ALWAYS check the score.

In my experience about 1/30 scores are entered and then OK'd incorrectly, usually by giving the result the wrong sign (e.g. entering 2S by N -2 rather than 2S by E -2). It's vital to check the published results at the end. This frequency has gone down slightly in the last few months.

The other thing that happens a lot with long (8+ board) sets is that one or more scores are not entered at all. The TD tells you repeatedly to check that the bridgemate says "end of session" after the last score is entered, but no-one ever does, and then some comes up to you later looking weary and (i) tells you off (ii) asks you what the contract and result was on some hand you played hours ago.

[Oof Arted]

And I thought in EBU land fines were now in force for failing to enter a score

[Trinidad]

I have never seen anyone, not checking the score on purpose. Sometimes, North accidentally presses 'Yes' once too often. And in some of those cases, EW are not bothered by that. But otherwise: North scores, East checks.

Rik

[RMB1]

Oof Arted, on May 20 2009, 06:15 AM, said:

And I thought in EBU land fines were now in force for failing to enter a score

Are you refering to EBU Appeals 2007 Appeal No. 28!? I think we only fine in aggravated circumstances.

The normal penalty, as Frances describes, is having a weary looking TD sigh at you.

Robin

[helene_t]

Btw it is cool to use predealt cards, then the software warns the director in case of a weird result, i.e. 4♠ by NS making 10 when DD they can only make 3 tricks. Of course it doesn't catch all errors, such as the common error of forgetting that the contract was doubled.

[whereagles]

I use bridgemates at the local club and people are sloppy with them. I've had to correct scores more often than I wished.