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Is this showing extras?

#1 User is offline   mtvesuvius 

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Posted 2009-May-07, 09:49

1♥ - (1♠) - X - (Pass)
2♦ - (Pass) - 2♠ - (Pass)
2NT or 3NT

Which shows extras? What is the significance of 2NT vs. 3NT?
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#2 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2009-May-07, 10:13

I don't think this is a BI problem, but ok.

The common sense answer would be "it depends on agreements." If 2♠ is GF, then 2NT is extras. If 2♠ is not GF, then 2NT is no extras.
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#3 User is offline   mtvesuvius 

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Posted 2009-May-07, 10:19

whereagles, on May 7 2009, 11:13 AM, said:

I don't think this is a BI problem, but ok.

The common sense answer would be "it depends on agreements." If 2♠ is GF, then 2NT is extras. If 2♠ is not GF, then 2NT is no extras.

I didn't even realize I posted it here... Ugh. Can a moderator move it please? B)
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#4 User is offline   andy_h 

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Posted 2009-May-07, 10:49

I personally wouldn't like 2NT as extras. You can probably assign a meaning to 3NT like maybe 15-17 which is the extras but even still there are some 15-17 hands that should not bid 3NT. For example if I have a weak hand I would still personally like to find the best game and go slowly with 2NT. Partner might be able to bid a low 3D to agree suit, or maybe we can diagnose that our SQTx isn't a sufficient stopper opposite partner's shortage etc. Oh, I am assuming that 2S is GF...I don't understand how it can not be GF as invitational hands can just raise partner to 3D.

Anyway, same goes with 15-17 range. I don't particularly like to be obliged to blast 3NT with a minimum or with extras since we could have a better spot to be in. Overall, 2NT just seems to be like awaiting further developments bid so 3NT should probably be a strong desire to play in 3NT.
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#5 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2009-May-07, 15:26

I find it very difficult to imagine a hand that would bid 2♦ and then 3N.

A 16 count 3=5=4=1 or 2=5=4=2 with 2 spade stoppers doesn't sound like a 2♦ rebid.
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#6 User is offline   Lobowolf 

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Posted 2009-May-07, 15:42

No fast arrival in NT. Jumps show extras.
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#7 User is offline   jakob_r 

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Posted 2009-May-09, 04:02

agree that 2♠ must be GF and that it would be useful to have 3NT showing extras. 2NT would then be asking responder to describe their hand further and not be promissing extras.
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#8 User is offline   cherdanno 

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Posted 2009-May-09, 14:10

mtvesuvius, on May 7 2009, 10:49 AM, said:

1♥ - (1♠) - X - (Pass)
2♦ - (Pass) - 2♠ - (Pass)
2NT or 3NT

Which shows extras? What is the significance of 2NT vs. 3NT?

I would almost never bid 3NT here. It is very likely that partner has an opinion on which strain to play in, just setting up the GF for now. So 3NT not only show extras but also a hand where 3NT is likely to be right despite partner's opinion (i.e. a double spade stopper). 2NT does not deny extras.
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#9 User is offline   hanp 

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Posted 2009-May-09, 14:31

Ditto Arend, 3NT is a strong statement.
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#10 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2009-May-09, 23:35

hanp, on May 9 2009, 03:31 PM, said:

Ditto Arend, 3NT is a strong statement.

I have to agree with Han and Arend here.
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#11 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2009-May-10, 05:57

I agree it's hard to think of a hand that would bid 3NT here, but it would definitely be very soft with no real interest in playing in diamonds.
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#12 User is offline   jmcw 

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Posted 2009-May-10, 07:01

2♠ is GF for me. 3NT is just a confident sign off. 2NT allows responder to give further info.
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