[mtvesuvius]

9xxxx
-------
AKQx
Kxxx

Partner opens 1NT (14-16), your plan?

[mike777]

mtvesuvius, on May 2 2009, 06:03 PM, said:

9xxxx
-------
AKQx
Kxxx

Partner opens 1NT (14-16), your plan?

as a non expert I decided to bid this hand as a 4=1=4=4 slam try hand so:
2nt relay to 3c and then 3h showing 4=1=4=4 slam try hand.

[kenrexford]

Ugh!

My first thought is to transfer and then bid 3♦. The downside to that is the inability of my partner to show natural hearts (3♥ for me would agree diamonds), which is very likely what he wants to do. Transfer, then 3♣, has appeal for that reason, but it seems so strained.

I hate this, but I think I'll bid 2♣, planning to rebid 3♦ if I don't hear a spade bid. If partner along the way bids hearts, I'll probably resign to 3NT.

[Winstonm]

If I have a way to show a 3-suited hand with short hearts, I will use that bid and pretend I'm 4144. If not, I do not outthink myself and simply transfer and then bid 3N. I'm not about to show any slam interest with the 9xxxx as my trump suit.

[hanp]

I would bid Stayman and if partner bids 2S I make a slam try with short hearts.

If partner bids 2H I bid 3NT. If partner bids 2D I will bid 3H, smolen.

[CSGibson]

In my partnerships we have a tool to show 4-4-4-1 hands, I'll treat this as one of those.

[Winstonm]

Quote

f partner bids 2H I bid 3NT. If partner bids 2D I will bid 3H, smolen.

Exclusion Smolen is a first for me.

[Phil]

I think anything but bidding 2♥ and then 3♦ is a serious error. This hand isn't particularly slammish, and we will never find a 5-3 spade fit unless we transfer.

[rogerclee]

Phil, on May 2 2009, 09:00 PM, said:

we will never find a 5-3 spade fit unless we transfer.

See Han's post, which I agree with.

[inquiry]

I sometimes treat a five card suit headed by puppies as a four card suit (will not rebid it, sometimes will not open it). But here, in addition to a five card suit, I have a void. I am going to bid 2♥ then show my diamond stregnth.

[Phil]

rogerclee, on May 2 2009, 11:02 PM, said:

Phil, on May 2 2009, 09:00 PM, said:

we will never find a 5-3 spade fit unless we transfer.

See Han's post, which I agree with.

While this may be true, partner will be expecting four hearts for a Smolen call, and will bid 3N with AK, xxx, Jxxx, AQxx and similar hands.

Using Smolen with a weak 5 card major without the other major is a creative idea, but I'm not sure I like the idea when we have reasonable alternatives.

[rogerclee]

Phil, on May 2 2009, 09:08 PM, said:

rogerclee, on May 2 2009, 11:02 PM, said:

Phil, on May 2 2009, 09:00 PM, said:

we will never find a 5-3 spade fit unless we transfer.

See Han's post, which I agree with.

While this may be true, partner will be expecting four hearts for a Smolen call, and will bid 3N with AK, xxx, Jxxx, AQxx and similar hands.

Using Smolen with a weak 5 card major without the other major is a creative idea, but I'm not sure I like the idea when we have reasonable alternatives.

There are problems with the plan, but there are also problems with transferring and bidding 3♦.

I was merely addressing the point that you would not find a 5-3 spade fit unless you started with a transfer.

[Cascade]

If I wanted to pretend this was 4=1=4=4 or similar I can bid 3♠ directly.

Otherwise I can transfer to spades and then show my heart shortage.

[barryallen]

Phil, on May 2 2009, 11:08 PM, said:

rogerclee, on May 2 2009, 11:02 PM, said:

Phil, on May 2 2009, 09:00 PM, said:

we will never find a 5-3 spade fit unless we transfer.

See Han's post, which I agree with.

While this may be true, partner will be expecting four hearts for a Smolen call, and will bid 3N with AK, xxx, Jxxx, AQxx and similar hands.

Using Smolen with a weak 5 card major without the other major is a creative idea, but I'm not sure I like the idea when we have reasonable alternatives.

Makes a lot of sense and all following bids can be as per your partnership agreement without having to be creative (confusing?). I think this is one of those times where you should be more concerned with staying out of trouble than finding slam, but slam is not off the menu with the correct responses from partner.

[Phil]

By the way, this is a great hand for transfer extensions. We can pattern at a low level starting with 2N (♣'s) and then 3♦.

[CSGibson]

Phil, on May 2 2009, 09:00 PM, said:

I think anything but bidding 2♥ and then 3♦ is a serious error. This hand isn't particularly slammish, and we will never find a 5-3 spade fit unless we transfer.

How do we know we want to find a 5-3 spade fit? Yes, if partner has AKx in spade it's probably (but not even then always) a good idea, but AJx or worse, and now we're in trouble in the trump suit, aside from whatever else the hand has in store for us.

Bidding as a 4-4-4-1 hand (which I only play as game forcing, which makes it more palatable for me, I guess) leaves spades as a strain, but allows partner to make a some-what intelligent decision with 4 possible strains. If he decides to play his 4-3 spade fit, then I'll have a good surprise for him, and decisions to play in the minors or NT will also probably be right.

Transferring and then bidding 3 diamonds gives partner other potential problems. How is he to know that AK Qxxx Jxx AQxx is bad for 3N (but great for a club slam), and that AK AQxx Jxx Qxxx is good? at least you pin-point the heart problem this way.

[Phil]

CSGibson, on May 3 2009, 05:45 PM, said:

Phil, on May 2 2009, 09:00 PM, said:

I think anything but bidding 2♥ and then 3♦ is a serious error. This hand isn't particularly slammish, and we will never find a 5-3 spade fit unless we transfer.

How do we know we want to find a 5-3 spade fit? Yes, if partner has AKx in spade it's probably (but not even then always) a good idea, but AJx or worse, and now we're in trouble in the trump suit, aside from whatever else the hand has in store for us.

Bidding as a 4-4-4-1 hand (which I only play as game forcing, which makes it more palatable for me, I guess) leaves spades as a strain, but allows partner to make a some-what intelligent decision with 4 possible strains. If he decides to play his 4-3 spade fit, then I'll have a good surprise for him, and decisions to play in the minors or NT will also probably be right.

Transferring and then bidding 3 diamonds gives partner other potential problems. How is he to know that AK Qxxx Jxx AQxx is bad for 3N (but great for a club slam), and that AK AQxx Jxx Qxxx is good? at least you pin-point the heart problem this way.

I think you are dreaming if you think you can intelligently reach a 4-3 spade fit if we show short hearts (which the OP never indicated you could BTW).

Unless we have nine running tricks, whatever spade losers we have will be losers in 3N as well. My hand is perfect for a dummy reversal, so I disagree that AJx of spades or worse makes a poor trump suit.

I will reiterate how attractive transfer extensions are.

[CSGibson]

Quote

...
I think you are dreaming if you think you can intelligently reach a 4-3 spade fit if we show short hearts (which the OP never indicated you could BTW).

Unless we have nine running tricks, whatever spade losers we have will be losers in 3N as well. My hand is perfect for a dummy reversal, so I disagree that AJx of spades or worse makes a poor trump suit.

I will reiterate how attractive transfer extensions are.

I think you're missing the point, which is that the spade suit is not very good, so transferring may not be the best option if & only if you have other tools that can give a better description of the hand. I have a tool to do that, and it's a fairly common agreement to have a way to show 4-4-4-1 hands, so even if the OP never indicated he played the agreement, it's still a relevant solution.

As for intelligently deciding to play 4-3 spade fits - all I can say is it happens, sometimes, usually out of desperation because nothing else will work (3-4-3-3 hands with bad hearts is the usual example). I think you are being self-limiting by saying that you cannot diagnose when it's right to play 4-3 fits, but maybe with a little more practice or experience, you can expand your game. I'll be willing to help, should you need practice, as I think you probably have the potential to grow.

[mtvesuvius]

OK, well this was very interesting for me... I transfered and bid 3♣, which was sort of based on Ken's reasoning. Partner held AK Qxxxx Jxx AQx, ♠ were 3-3, so I suppose 4♠ would have been better, and actually 6♠, but over 3♣, partner bid 3NT (Not 3♥ ) which I chose to pass. 3NT played reasonably well and made 4, but my bidding just didn't feel right. As of right now we do not have a way to show 4441s, but I will definitely try to add them. The Smolen idea was quite interesting, but I'm not sure I would be happy when partner bids 3NT on his AK xxx Jxxxx AQx where we have a laydown grand and play 3NT down 1 instead. Phil, I haven't really looked much at the transfer extensions, but from what I've seen/heard, this hand seems to be an advertisement for them. Thanks everybody for your responses, they were all quite interesting!

[whereagles]

Use a splinter if I have one available.

Else transfer + 3♦ + guess whether to bid over 3NT.